What do you consider spam?

Guardian2003 · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:48 am

First of all, let me say that this post is made after I recieved 2 emails asking for a domain to be submitted to my spamlist database.

Normally I make careful checks to ensure only bad spammers get added to the database as there are a great many sites using my spamlist database and to have one added without checking it out thoroughly could be disastrous.

This particular request is different to the others I normally get as it involves a nuke support site (I will NOT mention the name of the site or confirm or deny any replies to this as to the domains identity).

The 2 complaints I have recieved involve a nuke support site sending them email when their registered user account at that site clearly indicated in their 'profile' they do not want to recieve emails.
They both recieved THREE emails within a couple of days which were obviously sent using nukes 'mass mail' function (two of them begging for donations).

I would like to get the communities opinion on whether 'spam is spam is spam' - it was after all unsolicited mail as the users had indicated that they did not want to recieve emails.

Should the site in question be treated any differently just because it is a nuke support site?

evaders99 · Moderator Joined: Apr 30, 2004 Posts: 2749

Personally I do hate the sites that use the mailing list functions indescriminately. It is not expected in today's world of opt-in email lists, and it makes it a hassle to seperate this kind of 'soft spam' from the real 'hard spam'

Is your spamlist going to be used to filter emails? If not, I see no reason why it should be listed. The users need to bring this up with the site owners. If they continue to spam their users, they should probably just go ahead and dump their accounts... ask to delete their account, or just change their email themselves. Eventually these site owners will figure it out.

There are cases when emails should be sent out, perhaps in disclosure of possible private data. I don't want to remove the option of using mass mail where needed.

To be honest, this is a non-issue for me. The majority of emails being sent out are 'hard spam' and that is where I would want to see progress. These minor cases represent a fraction of spam, I would not even consider it true spam.

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 4624

Spam = unsolicited email, usually to solicit something. Though these site members might consider this spam, the site owner could argue that (s)he was simply trying to communicate with the member about an important issue.

The fact that there were multiple emails requesting donations definitely sways toward the spam argument, though.

Still, I think 3 instances hardly qualify the site as a spam site to be blacklisted. I'd agree that these users should remove their email addresses from the site.

persona_non_grata · Joined: Posts: 0

mmmm,...but if we should allow these types of mails it will mean that they will continue sending mails.

normaly speaking most mails are spam and the rules spamcop lives by are tough..
In order to send out mails in a way you can call justified the receiver have to officialy opt-in for such and should be notified on every mail that he can stop the service at any time...(but thats useless right?...if they override the system?)
the opt-out has to be in front of you in a way you cant miss it.

all the above isnt done...
and if the owner of a site is using the mass mail function he is breaking every rule and should be punished.

they did this long ago to me,sending mails all the time and they had a non-working mail function ,meaning....allthough it was off i couldnt do anything...
i submitted 6 mails of them in triplicate to spamcop.....after that no mails were send anymore...

thing is,many sites have money problems.....
if you want money then provide the services that make money...
advertise on a site or sites.....
keep the money rolling....
spend it on nuke sites........but dont abuse your mail by playing a cheap spammer. Twisted Evil

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Guardian2003 · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:46 pm

I'm not sure if the site configuration (allow email address changes) allows for email address removal (or change) but of course that is an option for them to consider.
On a personal level, yes I would agree that important news like a change of address or a newly discovered security hole etc would warrant a mass mailing as it would be in their users interests.

The 'instances' seem to be 2 or 3 a month on a regular basis - hardly hard core spamming I'd agree but I'm just trying to get a *feel* from the community as a balance to the reports that I have had.
Obviously the reports are from individuals who are aggreived by this sites behaviour (otherwise they would not have submitted a spam report) so I thought it an interesting topic of debate.

montego · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:56 am

The key question in my mind is have they done their own due diligence to request of the site owners that they do not appreciate this behaviour.

If you don't address the problem with your "merchant" first, how willing is your credit card company to suck up the charges???

If they have tried, on repeated occassions, to rectify the situation, then you could try sending one last contact to them too saying that what you are being asked to do. If no response, you ban them as a spammer. They had their chance.

Guardian2003 · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:28 am

I have now had 5 seperate 'reports' involving the site concerned and recieved copies of numerous emails sent to the first two individuals who complained who have both stated they have contacted the site and asked for these mass mailings to stop.

There seems to be a pattern of an average 2 mass mails per month over the last 6 months and in the email headers you can clearly see

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for ip.ip.ip.ip

I think taking everything on balance, what I'll do is contact the site myself explaining the number of grievances and what has been asked of me (adding them to the nuke communities Spamlist) and if they should continue, I will act on that request.

persona_non_grata · Joined: Posts: 0

you are a very nice person guardian... Wink

absolutely the forgiving kind....

Guardian2003 · Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:39 pm

Well I didn't recieve an apology which suprised me but I DID recieve an acceptance that it has happened and assurances that it would never happen again.

If it does, you will all be the second to know.

persona_non_grata · Joined: Posts: 0

i know a few who will be pleased to hear that...