Free Choice? Man's religion vs. Scriptural Truth

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Note from Admin: This topic was split from an Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! and moved here on March 10, 2009

Just to arise this topic again, if you were think lateral logically, would you be able to comprehend a world subtracted from money, that relied on freeness, wisdom, sharing, compromisable and contributive thinking?

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

Yep. Star Trek TNG Wink

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:40 pm

Possible if we all be an example to each other, how if non-good?

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:42 pm

Without hate there can be no love. To be nuetral would be to give up the right to free choice.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:44 pm

But if all was love with honesty there would be no hate.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:48 pm

Well I'm a firm believer of the balance of the universe, yin/yang what have you. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So to erase hate would be to defy logic.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:50 pm

Free choice would be to accept anothers choice, as long as it does not hurt another being. If compatibility wears away, the world is large, time to discover your heart of happiness. Most things don't last forever, just as friends come and go, but to make choices that you want to make, you have to turn your back on those around though not compatible anymore, but remaining respectful.
Find where or what makes you happy stops a life of heartache.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:53 pm

Everything has an opposite or equal reaction, but this does not balance out the fact we are all meant to be good, therefore bringing forth love.

Maybe hate miswritten, for sympathetic.

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:11 am

pureliving wrote:

Free choice would be to accept anothers choice, as long as it does not hurt another being

Then it's no longer a choice. Your statement contradicts itself. You attempt to give a definition of, or explain, free choice but then you place a condition, which is your condition, and is not mine. So it is no longer free; it is now conditional. It will cost me my convictions if I don't accept your way/condition. "Every man's way is right in his own eyes". How True the Scriptures are Wink

registered · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6437

Is LSD legal in the UK? New command. 1001001-SOS.

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:47 am

Kguske you criticise too much, multi brain thinking, try it.

Philosophy, business and communication.

Just because a person shows 'views' does not mean i tail away from reality, thats a totally different topic from ideaology.

Instead of being criticising, maybe actually show what you think.
Criticise not another, for what you do not yourself.

Raven, i see your point, maybe conditions are always a part of being civilised, but doesn't that mean all conditions should incite good?
Too much confusion in the world i say, then you got too many people suffering, by the hands of the sinful people; maybe then the major issue of life is associated more with the psychological mentality.
To teach someone good, 'could' reflect them to be good; always worth trying as you never know how long someone may take to learn.

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:06 pm

OK...I'll play along. But first, what is your definition of "multi brain thinking"? Is it redirection through obfuscation, a combination of seemingly random thoughts, joined with the word "and" with the goal of ideological submission?

Here is what I think:

When Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! contradicts reality, some might call that "insanity." (Then again, some would definitely question the sanity of this "discussion.")

Quote:

...would you be able to comprehend a world subtracted from (without) money, that relied on freeness (freedom), wisdom, sharing, compromisable (compromise) and contributive thinking?

"Contributive thinking" is an Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!. Thinking occurs in one's brain, not multiple brains connected by some cosmic force. It may be influenced by others, often by manipulation or force, but let's not pretend that there are valid excuses for making bad decisions as a result of so-called multi-brain or contributive thinking.

Quote:

Possible if we all be an example to each other, how if non-good?

This question does not compute. Please try again. Or not.

Quote:

But if all was love with honesty there would be no hate.

And if we had a penny (gee, another money reference) for every time someone had the useless thought "If everyone was good, no one would be bad" we could end world hunger and eradicate war. In 10 minutes. (Yes, I know, there goes reality getting in the way of ideology again!)

Quote:

Free choice would be to accept anothers choice, as long as it does not hurt another being. If compatibility wears away, the world is large, time to discover your heart of happiness. Most things don't last forever, just as friends come and go, but to make choices that you want to make, you have to turn your back on those around though not compatible anymore, but remaining respectful.
Find where or what makes you happy stops a life of heartache.

Free choice has nothing to do with another's choice. It is simply being able to choose for yourself, hopefully without hurting yourself or anyone else. The rest of this is more a=a. I'm more interested in a= negative e to the power of negative infinity (or at least a=b).

Quote:

Everything has an opposite or equal reaction, but this does not balance out the fact we are all meant to be good, therefore bringing forth love.

Maybe hate miswritten, for sympathetic.

You may accept the belief that we are "meant to be good," but the fact is that we are not all good, even under a Clintonian definition of "good." Beliefs are not facts, and they are not reality.

Put down the Nietzsche, Dr. Phil, Deepak or whatever it is you're trying to quote, and try to understand your posts (i.e. single brain thinking). Then again, you don't seem to be suggesting any realistic action, just stating "this is bad, and a=a. And b=b. And c=c." ♫ Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds...♪

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:14 pm

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:56 am

http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=133448#133448

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:16 am

horrorcode wrote:

Without hate there can be no love. To be nuetral would be to give up the right to free choice.

Actually don't you mean without hate there is love?.

Think about an analogy. Assume hate=dark=black and love=light=white. True hate is the absence of true love.
True dark is the absence of true light.
True black is the absence of true white.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:17 am

KGUSKE, reread your posts and tell me if i wrote what you wrote to me, would you agree with how you are perceived over thoughts and opinions.

The career i am trying to build upon the web for charities, is reality; the thoughts i write for opinions is basically off topic.

You state:

Quote:

I guess there is no freedom for (attempts at) humor.

From your post previously, is this what you call humour; to me it feels like you banter me.

Quote:

When ideology contradicts reality, some might call that "insanity." (Then again, some would definitely question the sanity of this "discussion.")

Seems to me like you suggesting my thinking is insane, like people are not allowed to have a broader thinking pattern, that expands outside what we actually see and what happens around us presently.

Quote:

Thinking occurs in one's brain, not multiple brains connected by some cosmic force.

Sarcasm or just ignorant to there being a proper meaning. Multi brain thinking maybe i written wrong to understand, proper wording: multi-aspectual thinking.

Quote:

Restore dignity to 'everyday', 'pre-theoretic' living
Dooyeweerd's and Clouser's view restores some dignity to 'everyday' thinking. For centuries - even millenia - 'pure' science (aspect isolation) has been seen as higher and more refined than 'applied' science. But, under this scheme, multi-aspectual thinking and acting is a far richer thing than is uni-aspectual science - and thus it is everyday living that is higher than scientific thinking.

--------------------

Quote:

someone had the useless thought "If everyone was good, no one would be bad" we could end world hunger and eradicate war. In 10 minutes. (Yes, I know, there goes reality getting in the way of ideology again!)

First, someone are you trying to imply me, and second, for your information i have not said if everyone was good, no one would be bad, now thats you taking ideology above reality, i merely suggest factors of good over bad.

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Beliefs are not facts, and they are not reality.

A lot of what we believe becomes a reality you forget, for instance, science known as fact to many, known as fact and theory to scientists, for example, evolution is both a fact and a theory.

Quote:

Put down the Nietzsche, Dr. Phil, Deepak or whatever it is you're trying to quote

Never heard of him, and its 'my views i quote from what i think of'.

Quote:

Then again, you don't seem to be suggesting any realistic action, just stating "this is bad, and a=a. And b=b. And c=c." ♫ Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds...♪

Taking the ****, maybe you ought to reread all the posts, can i not refer to good, without you not thinking inevitable and slightly comprehend a if/possibility/could, however thinking away from reality.

I am trying my hardest to be friended within this community, that so far i have found great, i just thought on one of my days of relaxation, i'd share a idea amongst principles, just to see what you all think, on a level outside of our usual web work.

I never intended for you to suggest or question my sanity, merely over trying to imagine if we were all truely friends, like i hope you may see me to be, although a million miles away.

I know i do have very strong beliefs, that i only actually impose in my own home, but i have no biasness towards anyone else for what they believe or philosophies they tell for feedback, although we can all see is not the reality of today.

Please do not see me as a retarded(insane) thinker as such, as remember, the economy and whom runs it, the strategies and who forms them to comply in everyday life, is entirely different from sitting back and hyperthetically thinking. Isn't it Philosophy?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:26 am

Raven:

Quote:

hate=dark=black and love=light=white

Good examples.

so if bad=sin=hell and good=reward=heaven

Isn't good to be better for us?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:01 am

pureliving wrote:

Isn't good to be better for us?

Well of course.

pureliving wrote:

Raven:

Quote:

hate=dark=black and love=light=white

Good examples.

so if bad=sin=hell and good=reward=heaven

Isn't good to be better for us?

But this, bad=sin=hell and good=reward=heaven, is not true according to the Scriptures. Sin is in the world and that is reality. "For ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God". But God tells us that "where sin abounds Grace does much more abound"! Grace does much more abound and Christ conquered sin through His death, burial, and resurrection. The day is coming when all the dead will rise and when all must stand before the Judgment seat of Christ. The books will be opened and all those who have accepted Christ as the only sacrifice for their sin (not good works of any kind) will spend forever in Heaven with God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Those who rejected God's offer of His Son will live forever in total darkness and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

All the good works that man does mean nothing and there will be no rewards and many good people will be cast into hell. For the only sin that will keep any person from spending eternity in Heaven is the sin of rejecting God's offer of salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ. It is so simple. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost".

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:37 am

Raven wrote:

horrorcode wrote:

Without hate there can be no love. To be nuetral would be to give up the right to free choice.

Actually don't you mean without hate there is love?.

Raven, I see your point, but I think you know what I meant Smile

For everyone else, logically yes Raven is right, but morally we wouldnt be here without sin. Therefor, no hate=no love, we wouldnt know love, we wouldnt even exist, so how could we even have this discussion?

The equation negative + positive = nuetral is wrong and defies logic. negative + positive = POSITIVE.

Neutral can NOT be achieved by positive + negative because the outcome is positive, as it consists of 2 positive actions and only one negative.

x/+=positive(x + =2) and y/-=negative(y - = -2) 0=neutral, x is 1, -x is 0

X+Y=1 OR X + - =1

Ive edited this alot to try to make it simpler to understand, sorry if youre having trouble. This should be simple enough,

x is 1 and + is 1
x and + is 2,
y is negative 1 and - is negative 1
y and - is negative 2
X and Y is 0<<< There is no deciding factor here, the result is neutral and random. XY is not an equation, neutral would be illogical.
X and Y and + is 1

The meaning of the word defines the outcome when speaking the word, therefor if man defined the word, we also defined the outcome.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:57 am

horrorcode wrote:

Raven, I see your point, but I think you know what I meant

. I was referring to pureliving's statement of "Isn't good to be better for us?", not anything you said. I'll edit my post so it is clear Wink

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:23 pm

Hmm, err,

At least Im getting better at math... Smile

Thanks for straightening that out. Actually the first part I was responding to your other post, but than I got lost in the moment....

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:29 pm

What about faith before Jesus Christ? God was existent then and from him only we be granted paradise and rebirth.

Quote:

The day is coming when all the dead will rise and when all must stand before the Judgment seat of Christ. The books will be opened and all those who have accepted Christ as the only sacrifice for their sin (not good works of any kind) will spend forever in Heaven with God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Those who rejected God's offer of His Son will live forever in total darkness and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We are walking on thin ice, as the saying goes, and the supernatural forces of life, i do believe are getting stronger. I thought revelation and redemption has caused many big uproars through-out scholars in the fields of religious philosophy and theology worldwide(although i can not remember what documentary i specifically watched ), showing that Christianity idolizes too much emphasis on Jesus, when in fact we are missing the vitals principles; GOD CREATED US, so it is to he only we stand before; even today it is God only who judges us, and as though been right from the beginning.

Take a look at the following if you may:

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/403793
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1215150
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/5855573
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1145232
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1163613

xx Bless xx

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:29 pm

That's not the way it is. Faith wasn't needed before Jesus Christ because Jesus, the God-man (100% God and 100% man) existed before man (Adam) was created. There was no sin so there was no issue with having to be redeemed!

There is no thin ice that I walk on nor the many believers before, during, and after my demise Smile

. Once saved, always safe/saved as long as my Redeemer (Christ) lives and I know He lives eternally (as He always has) as He took the form of man, born of a virgin, had no sin, was tempted in/of the flesh as are we, but stayed sinless so that He became the perfect Lamb of God. He was sacrificed, buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, ascended up to heaven to sit (always) at the Right Hand of His Father, that all those who come to God professing faith through the shed blood of God's own Son, Jesus Christ, have everlasting Life through Jesus Christ.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have always existed. The great three in One. We are saved by Grace through Faith and Faith is the Gift of God - See Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I am not endorsing everything that you may find in this reference because I have never had the time to read everything at this reference. So far it has been reliable. Please see http://bible.cc/john/1-1.htm and read the entire commentary. This is what and how I believe.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:08 pm

Portsmouth Anglican state:

Quote:

To maintain such a view a hard question has to be answered: how did such a mythical Jesus arise? How did a belief that ‘Jesus was a good man’ so rapidly evolve into ‘Jesus was God’? There are no remotely similar parallels for this sort of development elsewhere, and none at all in Judaism.

Was Jesus misunderstood?

This second alternative suggests that, in reality, Jesus never claimed to be God. Rather, his disciples spectacularly misinterpreted what he said and turned his claim to be a faithful prophet of God into that of being an incarnation of God.

Although i am not apart of a religion, i do classify myself as a Messenger of God, and acknowledge what i believe true in all religions, from what i do not.
I wasn't going to carry this topic further, but i really do feel strong about the significance placed upon prophets, i.e. Jesus in this instance, although i never have disrespect against what i think reflects as truth.

The following i am not part of, and have not read completely, but from the few pages i read, i would believe from a Christian perspective they have very logical literature:
http://www.portsmouth.anglican.org/jesus/the_life_a_portrait_of_jesus/how_could_jesus_be_both_man_and_god/

People written the scriptures, not jesus, therefore all scriptures, were just like me and you writing our views, and happenings, and like some people when they find someone important that they look up to as security, they may write things about whatever, and parts may be forgotten from accuracy or thought of as different, and in particular in them days, many blessed/worshipped all good, and condemned all they felt against, and Jesus showed heavenly unrare qualities.

Sorry for dragging on. . . . . Life, a confusing matter amongst many a?
Least we have faith.
worship

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:30 pm

Jesus most certainly did lay claim to being the Son of God, to be equal with God, etc. And I feel it is very evident that you totally confuse true faith with man made religions and that's why you are so all over the place with your thinking and conclusions. And I mean that statement as a respectful admonition, not a personal attack Smile

.

Yes, people wrote/penned the Scriptures. But, your conclusion that all scriptures, were just like me and you writing our views, and happenings is totally false and without merit. Also your statement although i never have disrespect against what i think reflects as truth once again shows, as I said to you elsewhere, your error/contradiction by definition. You say what YOU think reflects as truth which is simply contradicted by Scripture that says "Every man's way is right in his own eyes". If I, like you, based my "faith" on to my own version of "truth", then I certainly understand why you believe that We are walking on thin ice.

Scripture itself tells us in II Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:. The phrase inspiration of God, in the original language, literally means God breathed. Peter tells us that Holy men wrote as they were moved by the Spirit of God. I could go on and on. But suffice it to say, I would beg you to put aside all the other conclusions and put away/down all other readings and just sit down with a reliable Bible translation like The New American Standard Bible, the 1917 edition of The New Scofield Reference Bible, or several others that you can research through Google. Start with the Book of John and read it with an open heart and mind. Allow God through the work of the Holy Spirit to speak to you. Then read Genesis chapter One through Nine. Then read the entire New Testament starting with Matthew. Just my suggestions.