Ok which is it?

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:01 pm

I know at least one person will have a good answer for this Wink

When people talk about God (of any faith) some talk about a kind and just God, while other talk about a smite your down vengeful God. So which it is?

I can't imagine a God that will send you to the bowls of hell for eating pork on Friday, and forgiving you for killing someone because you did it as an "eye for an eye" at the same time. Or did the bible just make God seem however to fit the times?

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

As you know I believe in The Jesus Christ of the New Testament. Both the Old Testament and the New Testament are replete with the same theme: The God of creation is a Just God. He has both a premissive will and a divine will towards mankind. Moses is a prime example I like to use. Mosas was 80 years old when he started the leading the children of Israel through the wilderness. 40 years later they were at the door of the Promised land. Humanly speaking, Moses was tired of all the grumblings that had gone on and the Israelites were thirsty. God had told him to SPEAK to the rock and water would come forth, but Moses struck the rock with his staff. Water was drawn, but Moses had disobeyed God. Sadly, Moses was allowed to climb the mountain and gaze upon the land of milk and honey, but his brother Aaron led the people in. Moses died somewhere up there.

God cannot look upon evil. Period. He is a patient God, but a Holy God. The only sin that will keep a person from Heaven is the sin of rejecting God's Perfect Sacrifice, Jesus Christ. The Bible says that "Man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh upon the heart". Again it is written "There is none righteous, no not one". There is absolutely no way that man can be justified and forgiven in God's eyes except through the acceptance of the sacrifice that Jesus made, as God's only Son, who took on the form of man, and was sacrificed that man would have a Redeemer. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me". See? Only through faith in Jesus Christ. Not by works (not eating pork, etc.)

We have to understand that we will never understand God with our trite human mind. Isaiah wrote, speaking of God, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts". So, we have to trust (have faith) in what he tells us, not in what we think a "god" should be.

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:33 pm

Raven wrote:

Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me". See? Only through faith in Jesus Christ. Not by works (not eating pork, etc.)

Well that had to stink for everyone that was born/died before Jesus came around Exclamation

Raven wrote:

We have to understand that we will never understand God with our trite human mind.

Ok so how come everyone say the Bible is the word of God ... if we can't understand him how can we write a book about him? Wink

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:51 pm

Question number one takes more explanation. During the pre incarnation of Christ (when Christ took on the form of man) , people were saved as they looked towards the Christ. People are saved now looking back to the Christ. What is the bridge? FAITH. Faith in the Promise OF a Savior and now Faith in THE Savior that came and will return one glorious day. I know it is very complex and that's where Faith comes in.

Question number two, well, here again, men recorded the Bible as they were led by the Holy Spirit to write. It is a God breathed book. Men did not write it under their own inspiration. They wrote as they were inspried by the same Holy Spirit. That's why the Bible does not contradict itself.

Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:46 pm

Makes sense Smile

Regular Joined: Jan 27, 2004 Posts: 65

Everything about the Jewish faith of the Old Testament is in anticipation of the Messiah. It's pretty interesting the depth that's in their traditions/holidays as each symbolize different things... all pointing 2 Jesus Christ. The Old Testament & New Testament & all the books in them are in complete agreement w/ 1x another. The Old Testament & the law of Before Christ (BC) points 2 Christ in the New Testament as Messiah. As Raven said, we now learn about the time of Christ & keep looking 2 ahead 4 the eventual 2nd coming.

Similarly, U should do a search on the history of the Bible itself. It's pretty remarkable how much was dedicated in it's writing alone and its further translation later on to the King James Version (KJV). Very remarkable. There's a point where even skeptics must concede, okay now... that's a whole lot of "coincidences."

Client Joined: Apr 10, 2004 Posts: 649 Location: UK

One thing does bother me about the King James Version, in that it wasn't translated correctly from the original transcripts.

In the days it was translated, they're version of some words can mean the total opposite of what they do today, and their words also had different meanings to those written by the original authors.

It would be interesting to see a more recent translation taken directly from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Magdalene texts, and compare them to the King James Version.

I'm no heretic, I have the KJV bible here, and several different issues of it, which are all slightly different in their translation, but I would be interested to see a modern day translation directly from the original texts found, and written as accurately as is humanely possible to the original meanings.

Another thing is, all translations are taken from texts which were written many years after the crucifiction, and not in living memory. The earliest written from living memory were the Codecs found at the base of Mount Sinai (sp?) in the 1930's or 40's can't remember now, and the Magdalen texts.

Worker Joined: Feb 06, 2004 Posts: 147

Wow I am amazed to find a section on Religion on this site. I thought the person actually posted the message in an out of order fashion and it was just a matter of time for the Admin to delete it Smile

I especially admire Raven explanations !!! I am also a Christian, but with different experiences (Was once Catholic and lived before in other countries). There are few things that bother me at times: Dragging religion into politics, and, being a self-centered Christian who do not care about about others and the commendments... At times, I think people have tried to simplify Christianity to suit their lifestyle. I also think that the Old testament is very important to a Christian because it is the basis of everything. Just the same way as Christians have to read the book of Revelations. Anyhow, I have a new site especially treating about Christians testimonies and discussions ... check it out: http://www.testifytoday.com/

dcasmr

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:57 pm

Welcome dcasmr,

Ya I thought it was kinda different to have a religion board. But I love to ask Raven questions. He doesn't preach, and his answers are really clear.

So far no one has taken anything personal and have voiced their thoughts respectfully. Mr. Green

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:31 pm

Agree. His answers are crystal clear. Personally I respect all opinions because I studied philosophy, grew up in catholicsm and now I am just a Christians (non-denominational) - Smile

Religion is really complex. There is the word and the way people live it.
dcasmr