GPL abuse or not? Please Read!!

Worker Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 241

Once again another PHP-Nuke site has closed due to code abuse. Just like many times before we have lost another good site. First, http://www.codezwiz.com/ stops distributing his code freely because someone was profiting from his scripts, then http://www.disipal.net/ almost closes down because of code abuse and http://max.pcnuke.com does close their doors because of the abuse. When will enough be enough and we try to stop this type of abuse from happening. Now today as i type this http://dadanuke.org is ready to close his doors because his files are being distributed somewhere else for a profit. We are going to lose every decent support site to this type of abuse. I am asking for anyone or everyone to voice your opinion and let the above sites know we appreciatte their time and effort. Please visit http://dadanuke.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1806#1806 and let your voice be heard.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:53 pm

Indeed its sad but there isn´t a real way to stop this.
Profit and ranking is the name of the Game. If you know what I mean.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

As discussed in an news article last week there is nothing in the GPL that prevents a person/site from charging a reasonable amount for the delivery of software that is released under the GNU/GPL license.

Please see the news items and other links within.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:19 pm

Its just sad to think there is no regard for the hours and hard work that goes into the code itself. Thanks for the replies guys and i think alot of coders will change the way they release there files soon and not for the better i dont think.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:28 pm

Everyone says that, but I think you have to realize that you're writing for phpNuke, you're almost certainly under GNU/GPL. You could go to extremes to circumvent the license and try to protect your code, but most people don't have that kind of time or energy.

Its sad that no one can prevent the "$ for distribution" of such code. But the distribution of open code makes open source work. Otherwise, no one would use it. So long as you're not changing the credits on the files.. ala, you don't claim to have written the code someone else has.

I don't mind people distributing my code releases because they are under GNU/GPL. If they try to profit from them, fine... but few people I know would pay for something they could get for free. I certainly don't pay, I would encourage everyone not to go for such "clubs" to get code but go to the source instead. Ultimately they come to my site when the need support... and these people are the first to donate when they realize there is a good script that someone has written and they find it extremely useful.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:22 pm

evaders99 wrote:

but few people I know would pay for something they could get for free. I certainly don't pay, I would encourage everyone not to go for such "clubs" to get code but go to the source instead

Exactly! And that's also the safest because it's from the source. I have paid for some scripts that I could have gotten for free but I only do that when I know it goes to the author and the author stands behind his work and openly/actively supports it. It's a professional/ethics issue for/with me as I, too, am a developer. I have found that those who can are willing to support this site and have even offered more in some cases because of the scripts and the support.

Otoh, I do not begrudge those who have clubs and charge for admission. Usually it's a one time charge and those kind of sites are not making any kind of a living off of whatever comes in. I also, usually, will not support start-ups. One hit wonders are so common that that would be throwing my money to the wind. People/Sites need to establish themselves, show endurance and staying power, provide a service or services that benefit others more than themselves.

Well, I didn't mean to preach - really Wink

. I am pretty passionate on this subject.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:53 am

At the same time, I sure wish more people would cough up just a few dollars here or there to help developers at least defray web hosting costs. Most of us just do this for a hobby, I suspect. Some have other avenues for drawing income, such as through ads (minimal) and hosting, but many of us pull out of our own pockets each and every month to keep our sites on-line.

Just such a shame. Everyone has a few dollars to spare. Many will not think twice about buying a few sodas a day, but then balk at giving back a little to the original authors who charge nothing! Unfortunately, if I were to lose my job tomorrow, I'd have to close my doors...

Sorry, sort of off-topic preaching myself, but was so "moved" and went with it... Smile

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:28 am

Not off topic at all and I totally agree with you.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:33 am

Absolutely. A lot of people develop these scripts for fun, but they spend hours and hours doing it, not to mention providing support to others. It surprises me that so many people just grab the scripts and use them on their sites without so much as a thank you, let alone a small donation.

Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6434

Looks like all the script authors and support providers agree, anyway...

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:17 pm

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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:54 pm

So, jusy for giggles, i could take ravennuke and sell it and raven would not be mad a me at all ? Add a theme to it and name it nextgeneration Nuke in the theme and that would be legal and noone would say nothing ? Well folks would say ALOT but there would be no frounds to remove it at all correct ?I assure you i would never do this but could i ?

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:09 pm

I agree my friend about donating. I donate when i can to the sites i think really need it. I never donate to sites that charge fees, but do to sites that do write code and release it freely. Those are the sites i want to see some of us donate to. Its a hobby , but most folks get very angry when you do not offer support right away like we site on the site 24/7 We all have lives and the site is a fun hobby, and when folks start demanding this and that. Frustration sets in quick and sometimes it just gets carried away with. Atleast a thank you would be great.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:54 pm

nextgen, read the license: [ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ]

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:10 pm

This part answers alot for me

Quote:

When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not
price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you
have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for
this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it
if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it
in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

It could not state it any clearer could it. I guess frustration will always be a part of the community as it states you have the right to redistribute and charge for this service if you like. All this time i was doing things the hard way, by this weekend i can have a subscribers area up with everyones work in the subscribers area. Could have more downloads then hitwalker.. Very Happy

Sure am glad thats cleared upm Whew.LOL

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:47 pm

nextgen wrote:

So, jusy for giggles, i could take ravennuke and sell it and raven would not be mad a me at all ? Add a theme to it and name it nextgeneration Nuke in the theme and that would be legal and noone would say nothing ? Well folks would say ALOT but there would be no frounds to remove it at all correct ?I assure you i would never do this but could i ?

Absolutely. Why do you think there are so many permutations out there? It's all legal! Professional? Ethical? Depends on many things. It is not as complicated as you first thought but it doesn't make it any easier to swallow, at times <sigh>

Another way of putting it, at least in my mind, quoting the Apostle Paul from the New Testament, "All things are lawful but not all things are expedient". In other words just because something is legal does not mean that you should do it, even if you have license (no pun intended) to do it.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:04 am

Of course people will get mad. But there's little that you can legally do to stop it.
If it drives some people to stop coding, stop innovating, than that hurts all of us. But it is an individual decision. If someone would want to make a living doing coding work, they better make sure that they have an idea where the profits are coming from. In the majority of open-source models, it is the support and not the code itself that provides profit. Those who sell for-profit code should use something to protect their code, Zend Encoder for example.

I'm not saying coders are to blame. They certainly aren't. But they should know beforehand the limitations of GNU/GPL and what that means for their code. It can, and it probably will, be distributed without your consent and even for-profit to other people. But that is the same with any product these days... from bootleg software to counterfeit drugs.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:58 am

If your intentions are to genuinely provide a nice one stop shopping site to distribute open source software, then some people may appreciate that and pay your fees. You would also, IMHO, be morally obligated to donate some percentage of your income back to the developers or even the GNU organization to encourage further development.

On the other hand, if you are trying to make a fast buck off someone else, realize that people can always get their scripts for free or practically free by making copies or going somewhere else (often straight to the developer).

It is hard to make money off writing GPL'ed software, and it is even harder to make money by trying to distribute GPL'ed software. Usually the money is in support or packaging.

I think people take open source software for granted and shouldn't try to make money at the expense of others from it. I think the world would be a much poorer place without Gnu/Linux, Apache, MySQL, GCC, etc. These are very powerful tools available for anyone to use, modify, and share. Abuse them and people may stop developing them and we would all suffer.

registered · Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:59 pm

- Sure you can redistribute and ripp-off
- Sure you may charge money

But is this the idea behind the license?
All those misperceptions about GPL is just nuts, you all should be ashame and realy think openminded about it.
All that bashing and ego-tolerance is bad for any Open Source licensed project (GPL, BSD, MIT, etc. etc.).

Both parties have issues:

- coders who didn't understand what GPL is when they released their code
- distributers who don't understand what GPL stands for

If you realy want to get involved in Open Source you are freely to discuss it with me on a bright day with an OpenSource beer.

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:10 am

IMO, The fact that work that takes this long gets distributed and people charge for it, well thats why I dont monitor anything I produce, I love to code, hours, days, weeks, months, years, I enjoy it all, but my Greatest satisfaction is when my own clients/friends grab it and use it.

The fact that nothing legally can be done to stop this besides doing something to protect the source is a shame, but that just means that coders/ developers should stick together.

Like montego, I pay out of pocket every month, not only to keep my site online but also my server, believe me when I say, I dont make enough for either sites or servers to pay for themselves, and I'm happy with that.

Since I believe in sticking together and trying to help with the strain of financial issues, I donate where I can, and I offer coders/developers free space. I have 2 clients right now who use a LOT of space and my dev server in order to test their script, and what do they do? I am lucky enough to see brand new code function before its released and also these guys give what they can. I dont ask for anything in return because I know we must stick together, or developers will simply face financial issues, I take as much off my friends as I can. In turn I gain a lot, Good charma goes a long way.

I am ok with taking it out of my own pocket, helping a few people out, it even brings business because I am able to do so, I whole heartly believe that people who can, do and people who cant, get help from people who can.

Now Im going a bit off topic, but this being this site, I dont offer this to just anyone, never have. I dont publically do this, so heres a first.

Anyone who is in financial trouble can always knock on my e-mail.

Just let me know, and I will help if I can, now I dont always have finances, but I'm sure I can help if you need it. This also allows me to meet Great coders and people who I can learn from( I see opportunity in everything).

Theres more:

I would personally like to see a colaboration of coders, a safe haven so to speak.
So I am working on a seperate website where access is granted only by me, and code can be discussed on a private network, help can be recieved, even with private code.This will not be open to the public, and only people I trust and have previously experienced first hand will be allowed, you can believe I dont like people who steal, alter and claim it for their own.

I dont expect everyone to be me, or live by my standards, I leave credits, and add my name as someone who alters, if I alter, and thats a standard that you dont have to live by, but while being on my site, in a private area, you will regard, or you will not be allowed in, its that simple. lol

Way off topic now, What I am trying to say is this, If we stick together, then we can make it easier on everyone to develope their scripts, as for stopping people from reselling them, a evaders said, to encode or protect source is time consuming, but if a group of developers work together, it may be possible to do so, easily.

For example:

Lets say Raven developes a coding script, to encode the work, then we have a code that needs to be encoded, ok lets ask Raven if we can use his work, and boom scripts encoded. 2 coders working together using ones time to save others time, and the encoding is one thing, Using foreign functions and things that take time, these can all be saved, and maybe a standard for coding PROPER codes can be developed.

I know, I'm dreaming, but my mind is the most pleasant world to live in, as so many people have found lol.

So to wrapp this up:

Yes its sad, but if we stick together, I think people can create a safe network of help,support, and developement to better the ethics of coding.

If you need help, give me a buz, Im not rich, but I will do all I can. In return, I only ask for help in the persuit of knowledge to better the community and my own skill (I'll never stop learning).

I hope this provokes others to help as well, the ultimate goal.

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:15 am

DarkLord,

As always, I appreciate your willingness to help others. You have shown, both privately and publicly, that you are willing (and able) to write and share code as well as ideas. Let's see what others have to say Smile