Newb request

Worker Joined: Jun 09, 2007 Posts: 172

This is not a priority, and i dont look to see it really done, but if I dont ask then I dont know Smile

for training..since some people like me dont know much, could a theme like "fisubice" have comments added to say what the certain lines do....this would help those starting out get a better understanding of what everything does.

I am a trial and error person, and I will start putting in comments for the changes i made to show what the certain line of code does, and try to show an example of how to make a major change.
I know that i can only show a few things, but after i get what i can done, maby someone else can review and help to complete the work.

this is a short change i did, but the comments i added that may help someone later.

Code:

/* body{background:#ecf0f6;color:#000000;}        this is original line of code*/


body{background-image:url(../images/main_bg.gif);} /* this is line to use graphic as background */

this will give some reference and will have more info on making changes and how to do them.

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:52 am

Well there has been talk about incorporating a theme template system like Smarty, so this would make things a whole a lot easier.

Watch this space. Wink

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:26 am

from what i have read so far, it really looks like it could be really nice, but i guess it is still in alpha stage?.. i went to download and the latest stable release was dated feb 08? (2.6.20ver)

Without actually testing the program from a *newb* standpoint Smile

i cannot say alot right now, but some of my first thoughts would be if you can still keep some of the themes that are already in RN and they have smarty also there, without conflicts.....

Sorry if i am typing out loud Smile

but I would think you could first have smarty as a "addon" this way there would be no conflict and your able to get more input and testing to see how it would work, since there is alot of great people here with RN......Probally have to make sure its ok to add from the developer, and share the info you get to resolve any issues.....I really have to much time on my hands right now....sorry for the babbling Smile

what you think?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:22 am

If something like Smarty were ever implemented it would not be as an add-on because it doesn't work that way.
Smarty is a complete templating system so it would actually, fully and completely replace the current system.
But it is a big if though Smile

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:37 am

I have been looking at it more and so far as a "newb" it looks more complacated then learning how to create one from scratch or editing a current one.

From some of the reading though it has given me some ideas of a "newb" templete creator hehe...guess the first thing would be to write out in detail what i would want it to do and see what i can do to learn how to make it work.....Guess i will be trying to learn how to code ........

If i was to get something written up, where would be the best place to post my idea and pick an peoples brains and experience to see if i am on the right path to get this to work.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

I believe that Smarty is overkill and definitely too complicated to ever be close to "user friendly" - whatever exactly that means killing me

.

There are other good, simpler, and less complicated "template" engines available that we will be looking at as well as (possibly) incorporating bbcode throughout the system.

Additionally, and I always try to throw this in, PHP is itself a templating system. Embedding <?php /* php code */ ?> within your markup is pretty simple and as low overhead as one can get.

Regardless, we appreciate your feedback and completely agree that documentation can always be improved Wink

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:28 pm

this may not be really a request now as it is more of a project, so if this would not belong here please let me know and I can put it in the correct forum. This is still on subject of what I was asking but I am trying to expand on the idea and try to do some of the work.

here are my notes:

Newb Designer

Main Idea: menu to help design template and themes.

1. Template - menu with options for common templates and option to do custom.
a. common templates - header/side/boxes/news/story sizes
b. custom - open another page that would have input boxes for these options...
so something like "header"(2 x 9) would represent in "inches" 2in high by 9in long...the 2 and 9 could be input by the designer.
c. Boxes on the left and right would need to be dynamic for hight so it would hold the info for what is being shown there. Example: if you have modules shown and only have 3 items for the public and you have 8 items for reg users, you want the hight to change.

to simplify this more.....to have "fisubice" template setup where its a theme with no background color and plain text for any links.

2. theme
a. global settings for backgrounds/story/news/blocks

3. If you dont want global settings then you can set for each one. (these would override global)
a. menu to set colors or graphic background and header bacground
b. menu to set background or graphic of header/footer/story/news/blocks
c. menu to set text type and size for header/footer/story/news/blocks
d. menu to set text color for header/footer/story/news/blocks

the setups of the menus and pre-configured templets and maby even pre-configured themes would be great, but i am seeing alot of work to make it simple for people, and I have no programming knowledge Sad

Next will be to research on the best way to incorperate the variables into the code.
1. create a config file that will store the variables?
2. create a insert to insert the variables to their proper calls?
3. change entire line of code instead of just a single variable?
4. would there be different way to get this to work but still be simple? hehe

Here is a small example and explination of what i am thinking about...just getting it to work may be something else.

I have the "newb" block/module setup to load for admin only
I use the menu to select template "fisubice" - this will be with no theme applied
I then click on the theme button and another window opens
I select the "fisubice" theme for global. - for quick reference
I then select entire background, and the option for graphic
It gives me a box that has the default path (you can change) and instructs you to type in the name of the graphic at the end of the path.
I select save, and look at the theme

Now for this there are a couple of things that have to be done...you have to have your graphic in the default path, or change to different path with graphic name.
graphic will need to be a certian size
then when you save it needs to save the variable in a cfg file to be called, or it writes the variable into the proper file and place, which i believe is the style.css file.

Since i have been typing this up as i get time, I am starting to think that the base of the theme could be to create a new style.css file and rename style.css in case their is one their....since i am wanting to set all the colors and fonts and things in the program then just writing the css would resolve alot without having to set alot of variables to run a sub routines, and still keep things common with the code.

This may give you more of an idea of what I am thinking of trying to do. I dont mind making the attempt to see if i can get it to work, and I am greatfull for any input, as i know these notes may be confusing. If nothing else it will be a learning experence and I will know more then when i started Smile

If it is ok, I will continue to ask questions and get suggestions and ideas.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:06 am

Has anyone looked at Papamike's new template system?

Have you looked at the ravenice theme. I've been playing with this one and because it completely uses CSS I have found it is a lot easier to edit than fisubice.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:47 am

I did look at Autothemes (free version) a while ago but I just couldn't get on with it.
It is a good concept and works well but it isn't for me personally.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:58 am

I went to papamikecreations.net and looked at what he was working on, and like other programs i have looked at, there is some really good stuff there. But it isint what "I" am personally looking for.
There is a lot of programs that you can create and edit css offline, but i am looking for something that can be done "online" inside nuke, with simple changes, and safe.

I figure I need to work on the style sheet, so i will probally concentrate more on that at first, and work on trying to get one change at a time. If i can get one part to change using online setup then a lot of the work could be duplicated for the other changes.

I am probally going to try and start with some simple testing using html for inputs and have it submit the info and place it in the css.
The submit will be the hardest to figure, since it has to be to either create a new css all together or a way to replace the information

got to run...grandson needs my attention

Ok, back Smile

I guess my question would be if anyone has seen anything that will edit or create a style sheet from a created form or menu templete "Online"

I want to post what i am thinking so anyone could better understand my thinking.
here is a simple line on a css

Code:

body{background:#ecf0f6;color:#000000;}

now this is the line to change the entire background color. Now unless there is a way to query that line or a variable is set for the color there is not specific way to single this info from the rest of the info. Now to start simple all i would want to change "#ecfof6"
could the input in a form replace the entire line?
would it be better to have a var set for the color you want to change?

this is just a couple things i am thinking of trying, but looking for more info from everyone...

sorry for typing out loud, and ty for the input

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:17 am

I agree with Raven. Keeping it simply sweet does not require a big overload.
imho, what could be simplier than editing a .css file?

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:11 am

I finally seen something that would be close to what I am looking to do.

here
Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!

now this looks to create a new css....its simple to see changes...and it looks to be easy to seperate your changes. as additional part it has a box of colors that you can click on that will automatically add to the change, so you dont need to know all the color codes. at the end when you feel that your finished you can create the css in which it will open in another page with the created css.
Something like this would could make it "easier"...

This is a starting point that I will contiune to work with and talk with them about to see if or what would need to be done to add this to a nuke site.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:56 am

I have had a quick look at that website, but it doesn't seem to include anything for setting the dimensions etc for a DIV tag. It just seems to be Colour, font, font size etc. You would need to be able to specify classes/ids etc. for it to work.

I am not saying it can't be done, but that example of really basic.

I would love to be able to take a CSS template and just be able to add some code like {rightblock} to determine where a right block is supposed to appear. I know I am simplfying it, but I guess it is similar to what Raven suggested above by using <?php /* php code */ ?> .

Personally I am not too interested about being able to edit the theme from within RavenNuke itself.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:48 pm

This article talks about the kind of thing I was thinking of.

http://www.codewalkers.com/c/a/Display-Tutorials/Writing-a-Template-System-in-PHP/

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:15 pm

i had a chance to look at some of that info...and there is alot Smile

some of the info seems to remind me of the smarty app. In that case i start to think that those that can code dont need anything to make it simple, just to add a few notes to the code should be enough....this way you dont have to be concerned if it will work, or if the size is right or probally alot of other headaches that could happen.

But for those that dont know how to code, something like this could make it much easier to do visual changes.

now this could be a bad thing, because more people that dont know what they are doing will be asking for help.

I know it is beyond my skills, but I have not given up on it yet Smile

if i get this to work then i want to work more on templates Smile

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:44 pm

Again, if this would be better to continue in another area, please let me know.
As I continue to work on this project, i am doing some testing setting up the forums with dreamweaver. Right now I am looking to just do one line, figuring that if i get one line done then the rest are more of a repeat.

More of my question is to get an idea on how to submit the info....all that i have read so far submits the info to an email or maby a database. where could i find info to submit the info to a text file.....also would i still need to have something like the cgibin file like what is used to send email......
Last would it be easier to send the form info to sql instead of a txt file.

I am seeing that this is not popular to anyone, so if its for nothing else but a learning project, i am greatfull for the help and I will share what i learn in case there is someone that may be intrested Smile

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:06 am

There is no technical reason why there shouldn't be a built in theme/style editor after all, there are lots of software out there that has this ability.
A lot of blogging software, let's take Wordpress as an example, allows you to editor your header, footer and side columns from within the administration area of the software itself.
A lot of them do have one major drawback though and that is once you make a change you cannot 'undo' those changes so each time you make a change you really need to be creating a 'new' theme at the same time so your 'undo' is actually by switching back to the previus 'theme'

phpBB itself allows you to edit the forum styles, basically the data is stored in the database and then when finishes, it writes a new style or 'config' file.

So technically, yes, it is possible. The real question is "are the current themes built correctly" and the answer is 'no they are not'. For example, if there is a problem with the 'footer' code, the right side blocks will also fall over because they are created from the footer file so, well before there could/should be any theme tools built in, that really needs addressing first.

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:48 am

I agree that there would need to be a type of validation. For what I am working on so far, is not a program that can be used for every theme, I am trying to start with one theme and get that to work and then build from there.

Now the way i have started working on this so far is working with dreamweaver to help me create a form. I type in a single line, just like i see it in the css, and then the areas that could be changed i replace with a menu/list box where i add choices that could be made. Now this is still a limit on what can be done, but I am looking that its just a start right now.
I have also been researching some free java color pickers, that will let you click on the color that you want to change to for boxes that would have color changes.
Now i see a line of code with boxes that has the selections that I want.
Next I want to try and setup something to process everything where it will write a new style.css with the changes that are made. to expand on this it could check to see if their is a style.css already there and rename the one there before writing the new one. I am working with another site that may have something that would help me do what I want to get done.
Now after this would work, then i can change the form to show notes of what the boxes are there to change so it could be easier to understand what the change will do.
as i get more of this done, i will try to show the code i am working with to get more ideas of directions i need to consider.

again thanks for any help and suggestions

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:14 am

Just adding a general comment as it applies to RavenNuke(tm).

We plan to redesign the theme methodology. We don't (yet) know what that means as far as actual design. Therefore, whatever you may be designing may not work in the future. It's obvious that you are learning from your efforts and that's always a good thing Smile

. I just want to keep some perspective from our point of view.

We will not be starting from the end product and working backwards as you are doing. The reason being is that we do not have an end product that separates the design from the content. So, our plans are to develop a methodology that will meet the design rules. Once we have that design working then developing a theme designer will be easy.

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:30 am

I would probally say from what alot have said that this will be more for my learing then anything. The insight others have posted gives me alot to think about and helps me in my learing process. This is why i have continued to ask for input and suggestions.
I have been very greatfull that people here encourage and help direct someone to accomplish what they are trying to do. It may not be the great fix or hack that everyone would want, but they are part of the learning experience to finish while a project that is being worked on.
Not everyone will take from their time to help someone with something that wouldnt really be used for the whole, and I am very greatfull for the help. One day i may not learn anything, the next i might learn alot... Smile

I just hope when I do become good at this, that I can live up to the same level as I have seen others here.

I look forward to the changes you and your team will make in the future and Im excited to know that so much work is done to continue to make it easier for us that are learning.

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:31 am

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:16 am

well I started working on some of this, and for me asking these questions if you would rather this be in another forums i understnad, if not I will be glad to use all the help i can get.

here is the original code form style.css

Code:

font {font-family: Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif;}


td {font-family: Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10px}


body {font-family: Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10px}


p {font-family: Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10px}


div {font-family: Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10px}


input{margin-bottom:2px;margin-top:2px;text-indent:2px}


input,textarea,select{border-color:#000000;color:#000000;font-size:11px}


input,textarea,select{background: #ffffff;border-width:1px;font:normal 11px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif}


input.catbutton{background:#fafafa;color:#000000;font-size:10px}


input.button{background:#fafafa;color:#000000;font-size:10px}


input.liteoption{background: #fafafa;color:#000000}


input.mainoption{background:#fafafa;color:#000000;font-weight:bold}


input.post,textarea.post,select{background: #ffffff;color:#000000}


.helpline{background:#e1e9f2;border-style:none;color:#000000}


.code{background:#fafafa;border:1px solid #d1d7dc;color:#006600; font:11px Courier,"Courier New",sans-serif;padding:5px}


.quote{background:#fafafa;border:1px solid #d1d7dc;color:#444444; font:11px/125% Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif}


.bodyline{background: #f7f8fc;color:#000000;border:1px solid #98aab1}


/* body{background:#ecf0f6;color:#000000;}        this is original line of code*/


body{background-image:url(../images/main_bg.gif);} /* this is line to use graphic as background */


.hidegoogle{color:#ecf0f6;font-size:0pt;}


hr{border: 0px solid #516A88;border-top-width:1px;height:0px}


a:link,a:active,a:visited,a.postlink{color:#32475f;text-decoration:none}


a:hover,a.topictitle:hover{color:#839fbc;text-decoration:underline}


.title       {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.content     {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 10px; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif}


.block-title {background: none; color: #516A88; font-size: 10px; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif}


.storytitle  {background: none; color: #516A88; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.storycat    {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: underline}


.boxtitle    {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.boxcontent  {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 10px; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif}


.option      {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 10px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.tiny        {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.small       {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 9px; font-weight: normal; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.sandersh1   {background: none; color: #990000; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.sandersh2   {background: none; color: #990000; font-size: 16px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.sandersh3   {background: none; color: #990000; font-size: 14px; font-weight: bold; font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.sandersp    {background: none; color: #000000; font-size: 12px; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica,sans-serif; text-decoration: none}


.sandershr   {border: 5px;border-top-width:5px;height:2px}


img {border-style: none }

now this is a little short as there was alot of code for the calender here but i didnt get down that far.

Here is some of what i was working on and more to give an idea of trying to get it to work.

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">


<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">


<head>


<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />


<title>Untitled Document</title>


</head>





<body>


<form id="form1" name="form1" method="post" action="">


  <div align="center">test css page


  </div>


</form>


<form id="form2" name="form2" method="post" action="">


  font {font-family:


    <select name="select" id="select">


      <option>Verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


    </select> 


    ,


    <select name="f1" id="f1">


      <option>Verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


  </select> 


    ,


    <select name="f3" id="f3">


      <option>Verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


</select> 


    ;}


</form>


<form id="form3" name="form3" method="post" action="">


  td


  {font-family: 


    <select name="td" id="td">


      <option>verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


  </select>


  ,


  <select name="td1" id="td1">


      <option>Verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


  </select>


,


<select name="td2" id="td2">


      <option>Verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


; font-size: 


<select name="fontsize1" id="fontsize1">


  <option>8px</option>


  <option>9px</option>


  <option>10px</option>


  <option>11px</option>


</select> 


}


</form>


<form id="form4" name="form4" method="post" action="">


  body {font-family: 


 


  <select name="td3" id="td3">


    <option>verdana</option>


    <option>Helvetica</option>


    <option>sans-serif</option>


  </select>


,


<select name="td3" id="td4">


  <option>Verdana</option>


  <option>Helvetica</option>


  <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


,


<select name="td3" id="td5">


  <option>Verdana</option>


  <option>Helvetica</option>


  <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


; font-size:


<select name="fontsize2" id="fontsize2">


  <option>8px</option>


  <option>9px</option>


  <option>10px</option>


  <option>11px</option>


</select> 


}


</form>


<form id="form5" name="form5" method="post" action="">


  <p>p {font-family:  


    <select name="td4" id="td6">


      <option>verdana</option>


      <option>Helvetica</option>


      <option>sans-serif</option>


      </select>


,


<select name="td4" id="td7">


  <option>Verdana</option>


  <option>Helvetica</option>


  <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


,


<select name="td4" id="td8">


  <option>Verdana</option>


  <option>Helvetica</option>


  <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


; font-size:


<select name="fontsize3" id="fontsize3">


  <option>8px</option>


  <option>9px</option>


  <option>10px</option>


  <option>11px</option>


</select>


}


  </p>


</form>


<form id="form6" name="form6" method="post" action="">


  div {font-faimly:  


  <select name="td5" id="td9">


    <option>verdana</option>


    <option>Helvetica</option>


    <option>sans-serif</option>


  </select>


,


<select name="td5" id="td10">


  <option>Verdana</option>


  <option>Helvetica</option>


  <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


,


<select name="td5" id="td11">


  <option>Verdana</option>


  <option>Helvetica</option>


  <option>sans-serif</option>


</select>


; font-size:


<select name="fontsize4" id="fontsize4">


  <option>8px</option>


  <option>9px</option>


  <option>10px</option>


  <option>11px</option>


</select> 


}





</form>


<form id="form7" name="form7" method="post" action="">


  <p>input {margin-bottom:


    <select name="input1" id="input1">


      <option>1px</option>


      <option>2px</option>


      <option>3px</option>


      </select> 


  ;margin-top:


  <select name="input2" id="input2">


    <option>1px</option>


    <option>2px</option>


    <option>3px</option>


  </select> 


  ;text-indent:


  <select name="input3" id="input3">


    <option>1px</option>


    <option>2px</option>


    <option>3px</option>


  </select> 


  }</p>


  <p>input,textarea,select{border-color:#


    <select name="color1" id="color1">


      <option>000000</option>


    </select>


  ;color:#


  <select name="color2" id="color2">


  </select>


  ;font-size:


  <select name="fontsize5" id="fontsize5">


  </select>


  }</p>


</form>


<pre id="line1043">&nbsp;


</pre>


</body>


</html>

now this is not complete and just kinda setup to show what i have started with, using dreamweaver.
I have some stuff that should let me link the colors, so you can pick the color that will be changed....i just dont have it working yet......

in short...it is a line of code for the css, and it gives the options to make changes, once the changes are picked they should all be in the one line.

now the hard part, I am still looking at submitting this to a file....so far i am lost about even starting....

If anyone would have a stuggestion as to what i could try next please let me know Smile

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:06 am

Here's an idea for you.
See if you can find "phpNuke Button Module" you could possibly modify it or at least have some good fun tinkering with it.
If you cannot find one let me know and I'll have a dig in my archive.

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:55 pm

Well i have been trying to read when I can, and looked at alot of code for submit buttons.
I have not been able to try anything that even looked close, it seem that alot of them called another program to process any info. alot was to be submitted to either email or database... there seem to be some that looked like they would write to a file, but it really didnt show how all the parts of the form would be called, and were kinda confusing to the results.

for the example of what I was showing, I will not have to have that many changes with the form, it was more of testing to see how it would look. The changes had just random names set for tags.

So i am still looking for better information, and when i can get the time I will try to test more of what I have been reading.
If you get the time and dont mind directing me to some more good reading that a "newb" might be able to understand please let me know, or if you can direct me to software that would let me create a form and help with the submit let me know Smile

or give me a few hints to direct me in starting to get the form to work Smile

thanks

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:07 pm

I agree that some changes are needed in the theme system, but it is a simple system to modify and easy to customize. Smarty is a pain in the rear. I'm all for keeping things simple. Just my thoughts... Not worth much but that's my 2 cents.