Do you beleive in the devil?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:47 am

Now don't get mad and just answer NO. Think about the question then answer.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

Satan (Lucifer), was God's most beautiful angel, according to the Bible. At that time angels had a free will. Satan chose to rebel against God and he and a band of angels were cast out of Heaven. We know from Scripture that Satan still has access to God as he discusses Job with God and of course he tempted Christ and he tempts all, as long as we are alive here on earth. Satan is our accuser and it appears that he 'reminds' God of our sins. The moment my dad accepted Christ as his Savior 3 weeks ago tomorrow, you can rest assurred that Satan was accusing and reminding God of all the sins my father has committed of these years. The beauty in this? Once a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior, we have an Advocate always at the right hand of God to say "Nay Father. I died for Gaylen's dad and he has accepted Me as his Savior. My blood has paid the price for the penalty for his sins and they are washed away forever!". Once saved, I can no longer lose my reward (salvation) of eternity in heaven, but I can lose any rewards in heaven that I might have been given for faithful service after I was saved. You see, Christ's sacrifice on the cross and his burial and rising from the dead, has guaranteed eternal life to all who believe in Him. Satan is doomed to be cast permanently and eternally into the Lake of Fire at the end of the millenium (1000 year reign of Christ on this earth), which immediately begins at the end of the 7 year tribulation. You ask if I believe in the devil? Yes, but the devel of the Scriptures, not the horned, caped, depiction that we so carelessly play with here on earth. Satan is alive and is allowed to roam this earth and Heaven as he pleases. He is not to be regarded lightly and he condemns men's soles to an eternal hell save for the Blood of Christ, which can redeem them. But, this decision must be done BEFORE you die. The Bible says 'it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, and after that, the judgement". There is no second chance. There is no wandering in a netherworld waiting for someone to pray you out from there. To any that have not yet trusted Christ as your Savior, would you do that today? Would you trust in him for the forgiveness of sin? Why do I say sin and not sins? Because, the only sin that will keep you from Heaven is the sin of rejecting Christ. Do it now - do it today, before it is eternally too late.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:33 am

As always a good answer. It amazes me how many people will actually say they believe in God, but not the devil. I've never asked anyone if they worship him, since that is a totally different question all together.

Ok ... now for your questions Smile

Quote:

To any that have not yet trusted Christ as your Savior, would you do that today? Would you trust in him for the forgiveness of sin? Why do I say sin and not sins? Because, the only sin that will keep you from Heaven is the sin of rejecting Christ. Do it now - do it today, before it is eternally too late.

If as you say the only sin is to reject Christ ... then a lot of bad people would be in heaven. Many terrible people full heartily believe in Christ. Hitler went to church twice a week. Did what he did to Jews for two reason .. they had all the money and they didn't believe in Christ. Your white Arian butthead are very religious people that truly believe in Christ. They believe in it so much, and think Jesus is white that all non-white are animals and should be eliminated. I'd hate to think these people are in heaven. I have a hard time sharing a plant with them .. I don't want to share eternity with them. I know I used the worst, extreme examples, but most know of the referances.

Also if that is the only sin ... why were the 10 commandments given? In my imaginary world I can imagine people talking ... 'Ya God gave us these commandments but if we don't do it oh well .. they don't mean anything. But just to be safe lets go confess to cover our bases' Wink

But alas your answer has lead me to another question Wink

(wonder if a new thread should be started?!?)

Quote:

Once a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior, we have an Advocate always at the right hand of God to say "Nay Father. I died for Gaylen's dad and he has accepted Me as his Savior. My blood has paid the price for the penalty for his sins and they are washed away forever!". Once saved, I can no longer lose my reward (salvation) of eternity in heaven, but I can lose any rewards in heaven that I might have been given for faithful service after I was saved.

I understand this part ... and it's because of this part I choose not to follow an organized religion. I'm going to pick on the Catholics, Baptist, Perspirations, and other that use confessionals here for a moment .. sorry in advance. I know they follow this to a point. But what good is it if they act any way they want, go to confession, tell the guy in a robe all they had done, then they receive absolution for their 'sins' .. say a few prayers ... go do it and repeat the process. It seems religion has built in a safety loop to do whatever they want. I know it's also because of this reason Mormon's are not considered to be "Christian". Because they feel you get absolution once. After that any sins you do you have to take responsibility for them.

Hugs and Kisses to all Cool

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:08 pm

I never once mentioned going to church, did I Wink

? We aren't talking about church or religion. Heaven will be filled with repentant sinners. Salvation is not about going to church. Church will not save you. I cannot save you. Finding a good New Testament church is an act of a changed heart that wants to follow Christ. Christ told His disciples that you will know men by their fruits. A changed heart seeks the things above, not the things below. We look on the outward man, God looketh upon the heart. Someone has said the distance between Heaven and Hell is about 12 inches. Roughly the distance between your brain and your heart. Repent and be Saved was the charge and still is. See this excellent treatise on the subject http://www.centralsource.org/Library/FaithFAQs/faith_faqs_repentance.htm . You go on to talk about man made religion and church tradition etc. Seek a church that follows the early church's basic articles of Faith, if you will, the basic non-changing, basic binding Doctrines of Christ. HW, you will not find a perfect church. Sure, there are hypocrites all around you. I will let you down one day, somehow. But let me ask you this. Do you stop banking at your bank because the people there are hypocrites? Do you stop shopping at your stores because the people are hypocrites? Look to God, look to his Word, find a church that preaches, teaches, and obeys His Word or at least tries to. I look towards the day when I will see all those who have trusted Christ in Heaven. I have no doubt that we will be surprised as to who/whom we see there. But one thing is for certain, the excuse that someone would not accept Christ because Joe Blow goes to church and he's a hypocrite will surely give you a non-stop, one way ticket to ride - to Hell Sad

Involved Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Posts: 252 Location: OKC, OK

It would depined on how you defined “The Devil”. If you mean Satan, and all his other names, then no I do not. If you mean as a source of pure evil then again no I do not.

I am a Taoist, good and evil are just states of morality, what is at one time evil can be good and vies versa. There are no absolutes other then the way, Look at the symbol of the Tai Ji Tu. In the heart of both yin and yang is the seed of the other. The middle path is what you should strive for, never the extremes. Extreme actions lead to chaos or to an outcome far removed from what was at first the goal.

Some people want to protect unborn babies (good), then blow up a clinic (evil), some people want to be left alone to follow their faith and beliefs without outsiders (good), then crash planes into buildings (evil), some want to keep the federal government in check and out of there lives (good), then blow up a building and kill almost 200 people including children (evil). one stalks and kills innocent children (evil), but new laws are enacted to protect and find children (good).

But really what are good and evil, evil is that which is not good, good is defined by that which is not evil.

I cannot believe in pure evil nor can I believe in pure good. I believe in the path, the way, the middle road, the watercourse way.

Ok a few bits from one of Taoism’s books.

DaoDeJing chapter 1

The Tao that can be known is not Tao.
The substance of the World is only a name for Tao.
Tao is all that exists and may exist;
The World is only a map of what exists and may exist.

One experiences without Self to sense the World,
And experiences with Self to understand the World.
The two experiences are the same within Tao;
They are distinct only within the World.
Neither experience conveys Tao
Which is infinitely greater and more subtle than the World.

Chapter 2
When Beauty is recognised in the World
Ugliness has been learned;
When Good is recognised in the World
Evil has been learned.

In this way:
Alive and dead are abstracted from growth;
Difficult and easy are abstracted from progress;
Far and near are abstracted from position;
Strong and weak are abstracted from control;
Song and speech are abstracted from harmony;
After and before are abstracted from sequence.

The sage controls without authority,
And teaches without words;
He lets all things rise and fall,
Nurtures, but does not interfere,
Gives without demanding,
And is content.

Well I am rambaling but to answer your question if you define the two faces of the same coin as the mandate of heaven and the other as “The Devil” then ok I can belive that because they are just words and have no baring on reality.

One last thing just wanted to throw this out because I like it so much. It has nothing to do with the devil.

Chapter 80
If a country is governed wisely,
its inhabitants will be content.
They enjoy the labor of their hands
and don't waste time inventing
labor-saving machines.
Since they dearly love their homes,
they aren't interested in travel.
There may be a few wagons and boats,
but these don't go anywhere.
There may be an arsenal of weapons,
but nobody ever uses them.
People enjoy their food,
take pleasure in being with their families,
spend weekends working in their gardens,
delight in the doings of the neighborhood.
And even though the next country is so close
that people can hear its roosters crowing and its dogs barking,
they are content to die of old age
without ever having gone to see it.

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:48 pm

Scripture says "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the ways thereof are the ways of death". Again it is written "Every man's way is right in his own eyes". A great man of Faith once said to the unbeliever "If I am wrong (following Christ) then I have lost nothing. However, if I am right, I have gained everything and you have lost everything". I simply choose to say "Take the world but give me Jesus".

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 1:18 pm

No you didn't mention going to church, but for some religion, faith and church are all the same.

The article you posted is interesting reading. I'll have to post that on my recommended reading list.

So what you're saying it's not the procedure that's wrong ... the people not doing the procedure correctly when it comes to repentance.

I already know I'm not going to find a perfect church. There is no such thing as perfection. Just the illusion of it. Wink

and as we all know illusion can be shattered in the wink of an eye.

----side note----
The questions I post here are to make people think. Not to say anything is right or wrong or really reflect my religious views, they are just to make people think. My faith is very strong ... so you don't need to save me ... I'm already saved Wink

You probably have one of the strongest testaments of faith that I've seen in a long time. Sure you'll let me down. How can I expect more of you then I do of myself. I've let myself down many a'times. Do I disrespect people for being hypocrites .. you betcha. Not just religious hypocrisy, any type.

Client Joined: Apr 10, 2004 Posts: 649 Location: UK

The church is not just bricks and mortar.

God is all around us wherever we are, so why go to church? God created the world for us to live in and to respect, it is our Church.

As for the Devil, I'm sure he exists. But as to everyone going to heaven on judgement day, and some getting to heaven and some being sent to hell, I cant see it.

I think we move on, to another level after this life, and heaven or hell is a long way after that. Mortal life and spiritual life is all about learning how to be almost perfect in Gods eyes I think. And we have to work at it to become as near perfect as possible before entering heaven.

I'm not even sure I believe in Hell to be truthful. My idea of God is a being that can forgive all sinners so why would he send some to Hell and not others?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:06 pm

The 'gospel' according to Muffin Wink

? When I want to know about PHP I go to the PHP manual written by the author of PHP. Others have written about PHP but I can tell if they are making it up 'their way' by comparing it to the proof of the original writings. When I want to know about God and His plan for my life, I go to the Scriptures which reveal in no uncertain terms, His plan. The Bible is the recorded history and revelation by God, to men, as they were moved to write by the Holy Spirit. Those words are literally 'God Breathed'. How do I know that? By simply reading them they change men's lives! Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me". Faith has to based on something solid and unwaivering. If I would trust my beliefs to what I think and feel then I would be trusting in a self fullfilling void. I've seen what the power of God can do to a man who for 29 years had material wealth and a family, a wife who loved and adored him, and 3 children who were beautiful and perfect in his eyes. I've seen a man who thought he had it all and yet his heart was still yearning for more. I've seen a man who mocked Christians for their beliefs. I've seen a man who scoffed at the prayers of others. Meet this man at http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/postp1184.html#1184 . Our trust must be in a Holy God that is described in the Bible. It can't be my opinion, or yours, or that person over there. God has told us everything we need to know for life here on earth and for eternity. Our fate is not determined at any judgement. We have already been judged before we die based on what we did WITH Christ. It is too late after we take that last breath. People know in an instant after they die that there is a Heaven and a Hell. How do we know this? God said, and that settles it.

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:39 am

Well Raven I hope we can agree to disagree and be friends!

I just do not except the Bible as the word of God.

I take my faith from nature, I watch. I learn. I see.

I have one basic guide to all my faith and that is this…

God does not hide the secrets of the mandate of heaven from man it is before us plain and simple to see. I take mine from watching nature, which is plain and simple to see. You take yours from a book, which has survived for thousands of years as a mandate of heaven and is plain and simple to see.

The years to follow will expose us as fools or sages. I hope that it will show us both to be the same, as you have a good heart and I think I have the same, by faith we will find the true path.

May you and yours follow the true path and have nothing but joy and happiness for the rest of your lives.

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:20 am

Of course we are! What we have said is who we are. I do find it interesting though, your statements

Tao_Man wrote:

God does not hide the secrets of the mandate of heaven from man it is before us plain and simple to see.

You are already in perfect agreement with what God gave you (and all mankind) as proof of His existence. In the Book of Romans, Chapter 1 verses 19 and 20, Paul writes

Bible wrote:

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Those "invisible things" are speaking of Nature itself, proof Paul says, that God is the Creator of all Nature and even those things of Nature know that God made them, and so the human is w/o excuse.

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:34 am

lol The Gospel according to Muffin

As long as we all believe in Christ, who is God, we all worship the same super being, no matter how we choose to worship.

One thing about it is, we all agree to disagree, and we all agree we worship the same God. We just do it in different ways.

I think its wonderful, how we all have variations on how we 'believe and worship' yet we are all tolerant of each other's views on the subject.

I didnt see any Satanists posting, maybe we scared them away lol

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:36 pm

I used to know an ex-nun that was a Satanist. Strange lady. In fact we called her strange piece. She "had not known man" when she took her vows and boy did she make up for it after she left.

That was in my young and wild days, now I'm about a decade into my fat and lazy phase and those types of women just do not seem to be as interested in me as they used to be.

I am glad I sewed my wild oats in my youngr days, I just wish I had sewed some hops and barley so I could make my own beer. Smile

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:42 am

rofl