Name Change?

Theme Guru Joined: Jan 11, 2006 Posts: 170

Has a name change been considered for RavenNuke(TM) to (say) Raven CMS(TM)? The name Nuke just puts the work of the Raven designers in the same category as the designer of PHPNuke which has a bad reputation for being insecure, contains flawed code, uses other designers code without giving them credit, and the list goes on.

When I install RavenNuke(TM) for someone the first question that has been asked is "is it secure?"

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:33 pm

Well I understand your concerns but the most theme creator started with PHP Nuke themes and I guess you also. Does this automatically means you are the same sort like some others which removed credit, copyright and copied just code from other theme creators over and called it afterthat her own theme ?
Such questions like "is it secure" are normal if someone decides to install a software first time.
RavenNuke is not Nuke standard I believe thats already clear and because of the trust in this product RN or RavenNuke there isn´t a real problem with the use of this name.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:35 pm

I agree susann, RN was also based off of PHPNuke so therefore it's still nuke right?

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:38 pm

It "based orginally on" does not mean "it is" Nuke.
For example Dragonfly based on PHP Nuke 6.5 but it isn´t Nuke.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:44 pm

Is that an opinion or a fact though...? Who decides? I personally believe if its made from nuke then it still is... dragonfly looks and acts like nuke too just as rn.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:54 pm

I believe the differences in the code will tell you the answer.

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:01 pm

im sorry i dont understand your reply. its still based on nuke... i dont know... just my opinion. Rolling Eyes

again i still dont know whether your answer was fact or opinion

registered · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:25 pm

I believe if its a true fork, we should change the name. PHP Portal anyone? Smile

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:58 pm

Susann wrote:

Well I understand your concerns but the most theme creator started with PHP Nuke themes and I guess you also. Does this automatically means you are the same sort like some others which removed credit, copyright and copied just code from other theme creators over and called it afterthat her own theme ?
Such questions like "is it secure" are normal if someone decides to install a software first time.
RavenNuke is not Nuke standard I believe thats already clear and because of the trust in this product RN or RavenNuke there isn´t a real problem with the use of this name.

This is not a concern for me all I'm asking is if anyone has ever thught of changing the name, that's all. Themes have nothing to do with my question. And if you believe that what you said "RavenNuke is not Nuke standard I believe thats already clear and because of the trust in this product RN or RavenNuke there isn´t a real problem with the use of this name." is a true statement to the everyday web surfer then you don't know the general public very well. A lot of people don't even know what a CMS is much less what Nuke is, besides a bomb. I was a Community Leader with Geocities in the Heartland, when that existed, and then a Yahoo Expert after that, until that played out, and I can tell you from experience that the statement you made is just plain false. Ask the average surfer what RavenNuke is and they will say huh...

Anyhow, that's my two cents worth. Smile

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:00 pm

Well I´m very proud that I´m running RavenNuke wich isn´t PHP Nuke, wich doesn´t contain the same security holes, wich doesn´t have thousands ´of notices, wrong coded parts, missing language defines and bugs all over.

The name doesn´t mean so much important is only whats behind.

Also I personally believe a lot of users worldwide would be really irritated if the name RavenNuke would change.

Involved Joined: Jul 03, 2006 Posts: 273

My 2 cents is that having "Nuke" in the name may have more advantage than not.

Reason being is people then easily understand that Other Themes, Modules, Blocks etc that generally work with "Nuke" are likely to work with "Raven Nuke" vs they start their google searches for "Raven CMS Modules/Themes" and suddenly find almost no results.

However if the Core of Raven decides to change soo much that Nuke compatibility either disappears or becomes secondary to a new mode or method of Theme or Module rendering then perhaps a renaming might be prudent. Until that point I think it should keep Nuke in the name myself even if Nuke is a slowly dying beast.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

Mike,

This has been discussed in depth several times. Most recently in a public discussion at http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/postx17045-0-0.html . However, as you will read, I stopped the discussion in that thread as we had gotten off topic and we weren't sure if we should discuss it publicly. But, since it has been started as a separate thread, feel free to discuss this as we, the RN Team, are interested to hear your opinions.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:24 pm

From a word origins book: "of course, the Romans had neither teacup nor tea but they did have a saying so like ours as to be usually translated in our wording: excitare fluctus in simpulo. The literal meaning is to "stir up a tempest in a small ladle"; hence to storm about over trifles, to make much ado about nothing." Or a tempest in a teacup.

And that's what I think we have with these whole naming conversations. There's not one person in a thousand who has any clue what "nuke" is or stands for and probably not one in 100,000 who is concerned about the security aspects of *nuke or how Ravennuke ameliorates these. There is probably not even one person in 1000 who has any idea what a CMS is or why they should (or should not) use one for a web site. So changing the name of Ravennuke is not going to buy us a whole lot especially considering the days of work that would be required to make all the changes to effect that relabeling. Better to focus on something productive.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:29 pm

Talk about a tempest in a teacup! Are you sure the padding on your seat isn't allowing a spring to irritate thy bottom ROTFL

? Seriously, it's good to see you back in full force Wink

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:31 pm

"Heavens To Betsy" what is it that thou speaketh of fkelly? I figured that the only dumb question is the one that wasn't asked. So therefore I asked it not knowing it had been asked before. Smile

Why have a forum to address RavenNuke either specifically or in broad terms if it is not used and used some more? Afterall, RN is still evolving and I feel every part of it should be addressed openly by users not moderators, admins, or owners. I install RN for people and manage web sites using RN so I therefore have to be able to discuss RN with those people. In my opinion the topic of a name change is a focus on something productive.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:52 pm

LOL Papamike, I was just giving my opinion too and not seeking to stifle discussion. I just don't find it particularly productive but go ahead. I basically agree with your statement that a lot of people don't know what a CMS is or means much less what Nuke refers to. Even a term such as PHP Portal ... what the heck is PHP? Most people don't have a clue what PHP is. We need to get away from meaningless (to many folks) acronyms and abstractions and more back to basic semantic meaning. As soon as I start to describe my sites to someone with "A content management system based on PHP and MYSQL" well I've lost 99.9 percent of the audience right away". We really need to dumb it down and come up with something catchy. I just don't know what it might be.

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:22 pm

When I started this thread I figured I would get small answers but my ignorance of forums in general left me unprepared for discussion. All of my work is free and I do get alot of can you do this or that. I like helping people with RN and themes but the things I really enjoy has nothing to do with websites at all. Why would an old/young guy like myself be interested in RN? Security, I thrive on it, and RN is really secure. I do not set out to disagree with people at all it just comes out that way. Smile

I don't want to get off topic here, Raven might shut the topic down. I'm going to leave the issue alone now because I have already given my opinion more than once. As a retired person who is an invalid I have nothing better to do than toy around with themes. I just need to leave the forums alone. Smile

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:43 am

papamike wrote:

I don't want to get off topic here, Raven might shut the topic down.

Very rarely in 8 years or so on the web have I ever shut down any discussion unless personal attacks became an issue, foolishness was abounding, etc. I may have used a poor choice of words in that post above so if that came across as a threat it certainly was not meant that way Wink

.

As far as discussions go (public/private), let me share my opinion and the context. As a development team we will never please everyone. That's a definite path to certain failure. I believe we should try to create excitement in the community by sharing with them as well as the community sharing with us. But we need to be responsible for not setting expectations that are not feasible nor attainable. When approaching an issue that may have ramifications I try to always go to the RN Team before going public. If I was acting solo on RN then I would seek public opinion first. But, the members of the RN Team aren't just a labor pool. I trust the Team members with control of most every part of this site and/or RN and/or other areas. The Team is comprised of experience, expertise, wisdom, coding, etc, I could go on and on, but my point is that if we (the Team) can't/don't agree on a methodology/approach/feature, course of action, etc. then I would be a fool to put it to the public until we, as a Team, have at least worked out the main approach. Then (and only then) would I feel safe in asking for public opinion. Fortunately this action is a rarity Smile

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:58 am

fkelly wrote:

We really need to dumb it down and come up with something catchy. I just don't know what it might be.

The level of respect on this community is unreal and even when there is some debate it is usually done very well spirited, compliments Raven.
What fkelly wrote sounds very smart to me! what's in a name right, you have the right people together, what are other cms names out there? Joomla, Drupal, Dragonfly, postnuke, php nuke.... well Raven sounds pretty cool to me, just drop the Nuke Confused

and case closed Question

jc

registered · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:18 am

Raven CMS. I like it.

registered · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:04 pm

How about RavenItis.... oh, no, that's right, that is what you get when you work on RN for way too many years:

speedtype

Sorry, couldn't resist, only because it is partly true, but I blame the blankidity mouse more than anything for the pains in my shoulder, arms and wrist.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:42 pm

No matter what the name is, I will us it. All honesty, RavenNuke(tm) works for me.

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:43 pm

Same here Nuken, you just can't beat good security. worship