Death Penalty Whiner: Amnesty International!

registered · Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:21 pm

"God's clear instructions on the Death Penalty" this is only your (a) opinion Raven, or have you spoken to God? Confused

Isn't it crazy! when have you ever seen the opinion of an adult being changed in debates? LOL Never in a million years! well it's an exaggeration. Truth is always in the eye of the beholder, never mind beauty. To me it's clear Jesus would be completely against the Death Penalty, and for you it's "God's clear instructions" Shocked

Fighting for freedom, well how far did Jesus say to carry that shield? Wink

The arguments and debates can be endless, however one thing remains, it's an interesting and controversial topic Smile

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:02 pm

Raven wrote:

But God also said "Gen 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed". The understood reconciliation of the apparent dichotomy is that man is not supposed to kill another man. But if he does then he is to be put to death. Man is not judging. God has already judged the man and the crime. The judgment and the penalty is God's; the enforcement is man's.

I'm just wondering things that an answer might not exist for but anyways...

Is this specific to the person that actually commits the murder?

eg, The "murderer" is paid to seek out and kill another, who is guilty? Shall they both be executed?

If both, that could surely make us all murderers in some way, this is broad but indirectly I'm sure some of us could have prevented a loss of life in some way or another so aren't we all to blame?

What if the homeless man really was hungry and we didnt help, by our misjudgements we took his life, or is that too indirect?

If not the second, and only the man who actually sheds blood is accused, what is to come of the man who paid him? Does he walk free, only to be judged by God in the future?

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:35 pm

your judgement is unclear for me, I don't see why God has to have the answer for us.

I don't really believe he'll let that person walk away.Life can be really cruel in it's way. I'm still not a strong DP believer however I really believe in His judgement , even if he's not smiting the guy in his place.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

NeapolitanWorld, I (and others) have already clearly stated God's instructions concerning he who sheds another man's blood. Jesus said "I and my Father are One". Since Jesus said He (God the Son) and Father (God the Father) are One, then Jesus is most certainly/completely in agreement for the death penalty. You want to argue/debate using your arguments, not the Scriptural Truths. I have said all that I can on this subject and wish not for any more debate. As I said, God said it and that settles it for me Smile

.

horrorcode, God ordained human government as was stated earlier. Our laws are/were to be based on man's respect for man as we are all made in God's image. But, because of Adam's original sin, sin was passed onto all mankind (Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God). Mankind is punished by mankind, rightly or wrongly, today. However, punishment for these sins and transgressions do not affect one's acceptance into Heaven. The only sin that will EVER keep a soul from Heaven is the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, God's only acceptable sacrificial Lamb. One must confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and Savior. He must believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sin, was buried and then rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. What a blessing it is to be able to share the True Gospel!!! So, whether or not the person that we here on earth might put to death for a crime and not the actual person who orders it becomes less of an issue so to speak. If the person who ordered it becomes a believer before he dies, he will still get to Heaven but he will loses possible rewards that he might have had for the actions here on earth. Whereas if he dies w/o having accepted Jesus as his Savior, he will be cast into hell for all eternity and may be punished even more severely based upon his actions here on earth. Scripture alludes to degrees of punishment in hell and there is nothing more to really discuss about it. It's just one of many mysteries that God has chosen to not reveal. This also helps us to cope with a family member that may be wrongly accused and even put to death wrongly. If that family member has not accepted Jesus then he will be cast into hell for all eternity. That causes me more grief than anything that man might do to my family Sad

. Otoh, if the family member has accepted Jesus then he is instantly in the presence of Jesus upon his (possibly wrongful) death here on earth. For that we can rejoice Smile

, even in our sorrow. God's judgment is never wrong nor an accident. That's why my/our beliefs do not have to be situational. I hope this helps!

registered · Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:04 pm

Amen, I am so glad my family and I have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior. I too look forward to that time we will meet again and rejoice at the name of the Lord.

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:12 pm

eldorado, You are correct in that God does not always make His answer(s) clear. That is where Faith comes into play along with looking for and studying the many characteristics and attributes of God. Concerning this subject, the death penalty, you are correct as I stated to horrorcode. None will walk away guiltless. Because of the sin of Adam, we are all born sinners. It's not because of anything that we have done nor will do, but because it is (literally) in our blood. So because of this original (passed on) sin, whether we believe in the death penalty or not Laughing

, one day before we die we will/must each make a decision as to whether to accept Jesus as our Savior. If we say yes, then Heaven is assured. If we do not say yes then Hell is assured. The Good News? God is a patient and loving God. He is not willing that any should perish but that all will accept that Jesus is the Christ, the only Son of God, and the only Way to eternal life in Heaven. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me (Jesus)". We have only as long as we are alive to make this choice. That's why Proverbs 27:1 says "Boast not thyself of tomorrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.". Don't procrastinate Wink

- Make today, right now, the day that you are born again into the family of God!

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:18 pm

Nuken, it's always great to meet another brother/sister in Christ! We may never personally meet this side of the rapture but we will rejoice together one day in Heaven. I look forward to our homecoming, seeing heaven, seeing Jesus, my father and other loved ones who have passed, the wedding feast, the walls of jasper, the streets of gold, and oh so much more! "Where the Lamb is the light in the midst of the night. In that beautiful city of gold. Smile

"

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:56 pm

Well your wish unfortunately will not come to pass Confused

at least a few more times. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed" to jump to a conclusion that God accepts capital punishment it's a far stretch Raven. This could be no different then "Live by the sword, die by the sword" a metaphorical expression meaning that living one's life in a certain way will, in the end, affect one's destiny Wink

You are so caught up with the "scriptures" which no man will ever truly completely understand, that you are overlooking the simplicity of Jesus life message Wink

Also, just because it has not "happened" to you seams to be a very "unchristian" way of thinking is it not? it's not about predicting the future, but real life as it happens every day in our life's. It is an imperfect system, like it or not, be it the best justice system in the world or not, it is still and no question an imperfect system! so no I'm not willing to accept "collateral damages" or mistakes in state run killings.
That wedding feast would be incredible! hopefully I can make the party one day! but honestly I do not think I'm even worthy to be a servant at this grand wedding feast! If only we truly knew the invited names written in that book Wink

Regards,
jc

Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:07 pm

NeapolitanWorld wrote:

That wedding feast would be incredible! hopefully I can make the party one day! but honestly I do not think I'm even worthy to be a servant at this grand wedding feast! If only we truly knew the invited names written in that book

He has sent out the invitations to every man ever born and to be born. If you want to "make the party" then simply R.S.V.P. with the self-stamped return envelope. And just like any wedding I have ever been invited to, I don't know all the other names in the guestbook. I don't need to know. I only need to accept or decline as do you. I have already accepted, nuken has accepted, Montego has accepted, WebServant has accepted and so many others that we won't know until we have that glorious meeting in the air! The day is planned, and the Bride and Groom have offered an all expenses paid life changing opportunity to every invitee. May the Lord soften your heart and may you open your eyes to the true Gospel and the simple Truths of Scripture.

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:29 pm

Thanks Raven, you are always very cool Very Happy

Short list of countries that do and do not have...

Do:
USA
Japan
China
Iran
Iraq
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia

Do Not:
France Neutral

Italy
Canada
Australia
Germany
New Zeland
United Kingdon

A bit telling is it?

jc

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:41 pm

Really it tells nothing w/o the statistics of matching crimes for which the death penalty is served.

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:59 am

Raven wrote:

I have already accepted, nuken has accepted, Montego has accepted, WebServant has accepted and so many others that we won't know until we have that glorious meeting in the air!

I'm glad we will meet there.

As for the previous list , I don't know what to think of it. USA for instance , DP isn't legal in every State.
China is still under the influence of their 50's
Iran wants to bomb Israel
Iraq shelters terrorism
Saudi Arabia is a monarchy.

In France DP was abolished in 1970 , crime rate didn't go down. the most renown criminals striked during mid 70's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_directe_(armed_group) (Terrorism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesrine (Public Ennemy n1)
however organised crime disappeared in France before the 60's