What to change/remove from RavenNuke(tm)?

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:37 am

Raven wrote:

And I have already promised that the cafeteria style setup/installer is coming. RN v2.40.01 will [hopefully] be released tomorrow. Then, after some rest, I will begin working on RN v2.41.00. Palbin will be leading the development of RN v3.0. As to phpnuke, well, compatibility may have to go the way of IE 6.

not a problem for me, as long as FULL upgrade paths/ instructions/ installation details etc. are supplied.

How much of RN is actually Nuke, and how much has been re-written by you guys? As in, if it's a higher % RN than Nuke, can the licence/ details not be changed with just the copyright details showing in each file that is Nuke? Or does the license not allow that?

As for IP2Country- that's given me some issues of late - to be honest, if it's not required, I'd rather not use it- I've no idea how many visitors/ potential visitors can't or couldn't get in to the site...

I've seen a lot of "forks" appear to bo "no longer supported" etc.- all were singing their praises (and I could be wrong here with names, so please forgive me if I am wrong)- but nuke evolution, post nuke, platinum, etc.

How manf "forks" have their been, and how many are left? Maybe a lot of people with great ideas, but a lack of time. The community isn't as big as it was, mainly due to competition (joomla, Drupal, etc.)

Is it not worth contacting the guys behind all the different versions and try to pool resources? Or is it a case that politics will get in the way? (Not a problem for me, I know it happens)

Another question, slightly off topic, but then is it?

How many of you guys that support RN, do the coding, etc. fix bugs, develop mods etc. actually use the system for anything OTHER than supporting the nuke community? How many of you "use" nuke as the CMS of choice? (For non nuke related sites)

Just my 5p worth... (and I'm probably replying to the wrong thread Laughing

)

registered · Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:24 am

I have always liked the ease of use of nuke sites. If I were to do a site, RavenNuke(tm) would be my CMS of choice. It is well supported, secure, easy to modify, easy to make modules and easy to theme. I really believe the direction Raven and the team is going will produce one of the best CMS systems anywhere. As far as how much code is still Nuke, almost none. So many bug fixes, code cleanup and changes to the original 7.6 have been done that I doubt you would find a single line of untouched code left. I am looking forward to the future of RavenNuke(tm). The focus is and has been on the end user.

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:44 am

AndyB wrote:

How much of RN is actually Nuke, and how much has been re-written by you guys?

RN retains most of the original directory structure and for convenience most of the function names but as far as the code goes, there is not one single line anywhere that has not been 'touched'.

Quote:

As in, if it's a higher % RN than Nuke[referring to code changes], can the licence/ details not be changed with just the copyright details showing in each file that is Nuke? Or does the license not allow that?

Assuming that the original code was legally distirbuted/re-distributed as a GPL product then the 'in-file' copyrights have to remain, they can only be added to, to reference your own changes to the original files. The GPL does provide for a scenario that changing the core 'engine' (in this case the DB abstraction layer) creates a 'new' product rather than a derivative work..

Quote:

How many "forks" have their been, and how many are left?

Several dozen forks at one time or another but less than a handful, if even that many, still exist.

Quote:

Is it not worth contacting the guys behind all the different versions and try to pool resources? Or is it a case that politics will get in the way?

That has been the downfall of most of the forks to date - internal disagreements and lack of direction. Luckily we have never had that issue.

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:47 am

As I understood phpbb3 will be the stable release for some time. Correct me if I'm wrong there but I don't see it as a waste of time. There is no way the 4x code will be mature fast enough to make waiting for it anything but missing the boat before its sailed.

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:11 pm

In a perfect world, RN could be a lite package just including Blog (or news type module), Content (for static pages), photo gallery, forums, users management, calendar and some other stuff. A standard set of languages, extra languages must be downloaded from the addons site, and a handy way to extend (install new functionality) easily achieved by the average joe... More ideas to come! Very Happy

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:45 pm

From my perspective,

Journal can go.

ErrorDocuments can go unless the are just static pages that pick up some of the theme.

I use Advertising, but don't sell any - just internal banners.

I've always used News and haven't really ever figured out Content.

I do still have over 1000 pages of static html that I display in my own hack of static.php. It is a Library of pre-1927 documents (e.g., Calvin's writings). Any way to suck these "books" into a DB based "Library?"

I use search, but also have google search because were non-profit.

I'm not partial to AvantGo - but having web content for mobile is a newer trend.

Downloads is a MUST - but it would be nice to have categories that display in the block and others that do not.

Reviews seems cool, but I've never could get the data going to make it useful.

Survey is useful - but something robust, like a Quiz, would be a nice feature/expansion.

Weblinks are useful to me.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

webservant,

Quote:

I do still have over 1000 pages of static html that I display in my own hack of static.php. It is a Library of pre-1927 documents (e.g., Calvin's writings). Any way to suck these "books" into a DB based "Library?"

If you really want to pursue this then either contact me directly with the details or start a new thread asking for direction.

Raven

Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:23 am

Raven - I sent you a PM.

Involved Joined: Apr 05, 2006 Posts: 263

for me something whihc i have never found a use for is

Avantgo as it is,in present form
encyclopedia as it is,in present form
Errordocs
FAQ as it is,in present form
feedback as it is,in present form
feeds
forum whats that lol
journal as it is
recomend us to who !?
Reviews as it is,in present form needs to be more diverse
rwsmetauthors what on earth is that
statistics aswats are far better
Top
web links needs to be more fancy for me,

these are the one i dont use not that there bad , just i think if more work was put into them to make them more fancy i surpose for the want of a better way of saying it, but as they are they can be put in the add-ons folder for the next release for me.

i have tried adding stuff to some of those myself,, to find i simply did`nt have the time to finish the work off.

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:58 pm

Well... This what we have so far:

Journal: 8
Avant-Go: 4
Encyclopedia: 4
Project-Tracking: 3
Error Docs: 3
Reviews: 2
Top: 2
MetAuthors: 2
Forums: 2
Links: 2
Statistics: 2
News: 1
Downloads: 1
FAQ: 1
Feedback: 1
Feeds: 1
Recommend Us: 1

What confirms that Journal, Avant Go and Encyclopedia are the less used/needed modules by the community. Keep posting people, we really need your input.

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:28 am

I'd be screwed without forums, and I think unless a "proper" port for PHPBB3 (I'm not upto date with threads of late, so if I've missed it...) then RN may soon become too "old", if that makes sense?

I'm not saying I don't appreciate the work, time & effort that goes into RN, on the contrary, but without something as fundamental as the newer phpbb3, support is probably only going to decline....

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:02 am

I don't see why phpBB would want to use Symfony unless they are making it a commercial product.
Sure, it can make development a bit easier once you are familiar with it, which might be their reasoning but support would be a nightmare. Your 'average Joe' is just not going to have a clue how to make modifications to the core product.
I also think it might actually deter existing developers from developing third party code. Who wants to spend weeks or months learning how to get the most from Symfony to create something that has no return on (time) investment.
Having said that, some would take it up just for the challenge Smile

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:13 am

I'm not in favor of losing anything but nothing mentioned matters much to me at this time. Cutting out 3 things aren't going to free up much in the way of resources for anyone.

I'd rather be talking about adding a native Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! as a screaming whistling bell ???

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:20 am

This has been talked about in other threads so I won't beat it to death here. What we really need to do is to make RN truly modular so that site admins can pick from a list of modules to install and leave any of them out without encountering problems based on dependencies. The code is definitely not modular now.

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:52 am

AndyB I can't quote the thread but Palbin did mention its on the todo list for a bridged approach.

fkelly I whole heartedly agree. Brings focus down to more or less...
· Home ==News
· Authors and Articles
· Search
· Stories Archive
· Submit News
· Surveys
· Top 10
· Topics
· Your Account
· Comments

Throw in Groups for good measure.

Where to start to unravel this web? Delete all of the above except YA? Which if rewritten as ("Admin Groups & Users" &&"Users") seems to me like we'd have a Forking good time.

Seriously your on the money and the horse isn't dead but it is getting lathered and I can't find the Jockey.

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:11 pm

Quote:

Where to start to unravel this web? Delete all of the above except YA?

Yeah, except that even with YA, there is still code that explicitly references the Forums tables without checking first to see if they are installed. Take for instance: /modules/Your Account/public/new_finish.php where we do this:

Code:

      // Start - Added to allow bbcode encoding to remain upon saving user  - RN v2.40.00


      $resultbc = $db->sql_query('SELECT * FROM ' . $prefix . '_bbconfig WHERE config_name = "allow_html" OR config_name = "allow_html_tags" OR config_name = "allow_bbcode" OR config_name = "allow_smilies" OR config_name = "smilies_path" OR config_name = "rand_seed"');


      while ($rowbc = $db->sql_fetchrow($resultbc)) {


         $board_config[$rowbc['config_name']] = $rowbc['config_value'];


      }


      define('IN_PHPBB', TRUE);


      include_once('./modules/' . $module_name . '/includes/phpbb_bbstuff.php');


      include_once('./modules/Forums/includes/bbcode.php');


      include_once('./modules/Forums/includes/functions_post.php');

While moving much of the bb related code to included files is a start, the program would create a SQL error if there was no bbconfig table in the system. And there are many such instances that will need to be fixed to make even YA truly modular.

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:05 am

Things I have never /seldom used....

Journal
Avant-Go
Encyclopedia
Project-Tracking
Reviews
Links
FAQ
Feeds
Recommend Us

Things that are "Must Haves"

News
Easy to edit Static HTML pags
User Management
Groups and Group Access
Forums

Things that Make RN the right choice for me...
The main reason I like RN so much is that it is easy to "Create" addons and mods for. This is the A#1 reason I have always loved it SO very much.

Things that it needs....
Group based time Subscriptions with payment options!<- Dawgs Broken Record

Just My.02

Dawg

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:25 am

jestrella wrote:

first than that, we need to define "core" itself. Is RN supposed to be a news oriented portal?, a blogging system? fixed content site?

Everything is content and when you're a die-hard document writer you will understand the following:

News
1. 1.1 Article 1
  1. comment
2. 1.2 Article 2
Blog
1. 1.1 Blog item 1
  1. 1.1.1 comment
2. 1.2 Blog item 2
Forums
1. 1.1 Forum 1
  1. 1.1.1 Topic 1
2. 1.2 Forum 2

Each item is content and a page and there is no need to have them as modules.
But, that means php-nuke has to be rewritten from scratch and that is no option.

Everything should be optional except simple content pages (with wysiwyg editor)

registered · Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:48 am

for myself jestrella, on the gaming side
Journal: 3 (converted to blogs)
Avant-Go: 4 (Added content from forums)
Encyclopedia: 8 (used it once for game related terms , traffic was at 10% the first week and now is at 0%)
Project-Tracking: 5 (Not good for non-tech sites)
Error Docs: 2 ( A must Have to keep visitors on)
Reviews: 3
Top: 4
MetAuthors: 7 ///---\\\
Forums: 1 (It's the life of my site)
Links: 4 (15% of my traffic)
Statistics: 5 , 5th pos , because i use it a lot personally
News: 2 ( News is good , but forums kicks ass , i want a mod that enables you to comment in a new forum post!!!)
Downloads: 1 (...)
FAQ: 3 , really good for games guide
Feedback: 5
Feeds: 1 (Almost like youtube)
Recommend Us: 2

Worker Joined: Aug 02, 2004 Posts: 165

jestrella wrote:

What would you definitely remove from RN core?

Following modules are inactive for now:
- Feeds
- Reviews
- Project_Tracking
- Advertising
- Journal
- GCalendar

jestrella wrote:

What would you definitely remove from RN core?
What functionality would you change/update?

Update will be needed:
- Downloads
- Links
- Forum
- FAQ ---> Wiki style...
- AvantGo -> Mobile optimized pages needed! Don't remove this Smile

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:05 pm

@sixonetonofun - ownCloud - nice! Looks like a desktop version of Google Wave.
Personally I'm waiting for Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:52 am

(Going off topic sorry) Guardian2003 Diaspora looks very interesting. I haven't used opendesktop or any of the social networking services really (I don't tweet, tritter or blog on facebook ect...

I like ownCloud's design as a file manager (Ajax driven). I haven't explored it fully but its a very nice file/sharing manager at this time with plug in facilities for? Installer is really sweet best (simple & intuitive) I've tried.

webdav:// should make it very cvs like but I have found small issues, but its still RC so Razz

Konqueror its like a remote live desktop!

Being a KDE project I'd expect drag n drop facilities ect... written in php so it would be easy to port just waiting for a release version to work with.

registered · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6437

Haven't seen this until today, but I'll throw in my $.02:
- If you haven't seen the modular approach used by Magento e-commerce, you should. It has basic functionality in the app, and an online function for adding modules, themes, etc. via it's app store (many are free, some are commercial). Our recent changes to enable dynamic JS / CSS installation should make this much easier to deliver. While you're looking, check out how Magento manages the home / index page: it combines static and dynamic content - pretty cool.
- We can debate how error document functionality is delivered (i.e. module vs. files), but there is definitely a need for this function. There are so many opportunities for revenue generation, site management, security, and other features that require a database that justify using a module for this. There might be a few reasons not too, also. But relying on your web host to provide this function allows them to control your visitor's experience.
- Same is true for feeds. If you post content on your site, why wouldn't you want to enable your visitors to view that content in a feed? It expands your site's reach.

Quote:

How many of you guys that support RN, do the coding, etc. fix bugs, develop mods etc. actually use the system for anything OTHER than supporting the nuke community? How many of you "use" nuke as the CMS of choice? (For non nuke related sites)

A better question might be: did any of those supporting RN NOT come to RN after running a non-nuke related site first, then find RN as a desirable alternative? As far as I know, the answer is a resounding, "No." Using CMS applications, I manage about 20 sites using various forms of Nuke (moving those to RN), 1 site using Joomla, and 1 site using Drupal. Only 1 of those sites is a Nuke community site.

Quote:

Each item is content and a page and there is no need to have them as modules.
But, that means php-nuke has to be rewritten from scratch and that is no option.

Actually, instead of rewriting Nuke, you could just switch to Joomla or Drupal, which both treat content this way. I'm not saying this is a bad approach (it's certainly not), but there are disadvantages - namely integration with point solutions like phpBB, phpSurveyor, and other applications that have been integrated with Nuke over the years. Yes, you can (and many have) develop bridges between single-content table apps and best-of-breed apps, but in doing so, you lose many of the CMS features that span content types. That's the beauty of mSearch, the nukeSEO Sitemap, nukeFEED, and, now, nukeSEO DH: they convert content stored in different tables into useful formats for RN without requiring changes to the app.

On that note, we should really consider using a real survey tool to get feedback on topics like this.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:07 am

I think the question should have been, "What default modules should be given highest priority?".

Security and Speed enhancements might top the list but thats a mute point for users.

How about creating a forum for each of the lessor default modules and letting the community adopt them? Rather then creating more abandonware. We all have some level of skill, some with graphics, html, java, sql, php ect...

Leaving the RavenNuke(tm) Team to focus on the larger issues. Putting in less time with redundant minor changes yet still available for guidance and approval. Community is whats driven the project from its roots and will continue to so why not make use of the asset?

Many of us have a little time but do not wish to be committed to a full time project.

kguske makes a lot of sense and has invested a lot of time into some of new features. Does it not make sense to let him and the others who can do, do?

Most open source software on this scale have community teams of packagers, ect... why shouldn't RN put that together under one roof?

registered · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:33 pm

Establish a core set of API's and framework for accessing those API's for accepting input and producing output and leave everything else as a "plug-in". However, unfortunately, that means "re-write"... Sad

My list of "never use" have not changed as well.