FB's PHPNuke Teaser

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:00 pm

Quote:

Note: Thanks.. very appreciated an with the new official development team in planning stage, this will be of a great help. Ops! I think I said something too early Wink

"

Well folks the long thought dead development team may be a reality after all. Reading Fb's phoney freudian schlip http://phpnuke.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7097

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

- Hmmmm. Wonder if this "vapor" team will be as productive as that other "one and only OFFICIAL development" team ROTFL

registered · Useless Joined: Aug 23, 2002 Posts: 213 Location: Chicago

Right, I will donate some money to development team too once I get back from Mars.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:47 am

FB's Official Development team... Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

Top 10 Objectives For FB's PHP-Nuke Development Team

#10 - Re-code PHP-Nuke using the latest PHP3 and MySQL3 coding methodologies.

#9 - After stealing.... err... integrating only half of Chatserv's latest fixes... (Never integrate all of Chatserv's fixes, as it makes FB look bad.) add at least 3 new types of security holes that affect every module. Call the latest bugs, "new features".

#8 - Go back to 7.0 and find at least 20 errors to add back into next version... Be sure to keep these bugs in the latest release for at least 6 versions even though they will be identified and fixed in future Chatserv patches.

#7 - Recruit at least 10 new advertisers for obnoxious popup windows at phpnuke.org.

#6 - Open phpnuke.org Support.... err... no support... "Community Forums".. yeah.. that's the ticket... but with the new feature called, "FB Approve" where no messages actually get posted until FB reviews them so he can delete the ones he doesn't like.... the ones that identify bugs for example.

#5 - phpnuke.org "Community Forums" to accept only questions submitted in the proper Navaho, "smoke signals" language format or they are deleted... All questions to be answered with, "That will be considered for the next release".

#4 - Find additional 5+ year old scripts that won't work with anything beyond version 6.5 for the phpnuke.org downloads library. Delete anything productive or useful, while adding 50 more categories with no content.

#3 - Require all "Development Team" members to communicate online using the latest 300baud dialup modems.

#2 - Require all "Development Team" members to join the "Development Club" by contributing $50.00 a month. As a benefit, they get to download the latest bug filled version for free, which promptly crashes the servers of every team member. Any submitted fixes are promptly deleted and the team member removed for, "being disruptive".

and the #1 objective to FB's PHP-Nuke Development Team is:

#1 - Invent new snappy acronym to describe PHP-Nuke because "Puke" just isn't cutting it.

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:05 am

64Bit -

That wasn't clear. What's your real opinion ROTFL

. I never knew you were so outspoken! Want a Moderator's job here?

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:52 pm

That just made my day.

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:26 pm

If i'm not mistaken the previous development team (2k4) has developed a new Forum for PHP-Nuke.
Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!, Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! (this is february 2k4)

I hope he will succeed this time so that people who can't code do stop bitch to people who can or atleast try to code.
Isn't that called Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! Embarassed

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:50 am

My personal opinion is that any future complete rework of the solution by FB would be best served by being completely ignored by the Nuke community. I'd rather see Raven or Chatserv write a new solution than sign up for another FB ride on the not-so-merry-go-round.

My comments are based purely on the history of FB's so-called "teams", the forks that have resulted because of lack of cooperation and cohesive direction inside his "teams", and FB's history of failing to integrate known bug fixes from one version to the next, while at the same time his willingness to steal code from 3rd party developers without offering any credit to the authors of that code.

The total lack of cohesiveness coupled with the obvious unwillingness to repair bugs (even when solutions are provided) and the genuine lack of any kind of community participation in evolutionary development cycles has proved that if there is one person out there that I wouldn't want to be involved with, it would be FB.

I find it utterly ridiculous that MySQL functions fixed in every version of Nuke from 6.5 on (by Chatserv and others) were never integrated into the core code. Instead, Chatserv was forced to write a new, separate patch for every version. I mean, ignoring the problems hasn't made any of them magically go away on their own, and does anyone think that FB doesn't know about NukeResources?

Then there were the attacks against NSN. I mean it's bad enough FB didn't support Nuke, but to attack those that are just rubs me the wrong way.

To make matters worse, individual and consolidated bugs have only been fixed only in Chatserv's "Patched" solutions.. WHY? Because history shows clearly that: 1) FB fails to provide technical support of any kind while 2) ignoring obvious gaping holes, even when solutions are provided by others.

I mean phpnuke.org going over a year without even having forums turned on doesn't bestow any confidence whatsoever. Chatserv has been the only individual that I am aware of that has been willing to consolidate the identification and resolution of bugs in every Nuke version post 6.5. And of course this has also meant that bugs that existed in 7.0 existed in many cases through 7.5!

This prompts the question, why should anyone trust FB (even if this team thing should happen.... for like the 5th time) given the long history of isolationism, theft of code and unwillingness to fix any of the problems, even when those fixes are openly and willingly provided?! Then, keep in mind the only credits you'll see are FB's. Sure, an author may get a line in the comments section of one module, but what is that really saying?

At least CPG-Nuke (as just one example) recognizes that there is a team and doesn't try to hide who those people are while only one person takes all of the credit.

Again, to think of FB having any "Team" strikes me as oxymoronic. I personally would much rather concentrate my efforts on a solution that includes:

CVS or other development area
Invites community participation
Includes open and cooperative communications
Has A PLAN OR AT LEAST IDENTIFIED OBJECTIVES (wow, a development map.. who'da thunk?)
Identification of weaknesses so that corrective measures may be undertaken to eliminate those problems.

Shutting off the World invites criticism and actions speak louder than words. Given the history (visible to even the most casual observer) IMHO, FB deserves all the criticism, sarcastic (or not) personal attacks against his methods and motives and a good bitch slapping for his actions. It's not Jealousy, it's Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!.

Just my two cents...

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:14 pm

My never answered question:

Why hire a team while there are 50+ who might have helped if he asked so.
1) Is it a "give credit" issue
2) Can't work with a team because he's shortsighted and want to control everything himself
3) Scared for people who might take over the project
4) Hate it when people release fixes
5) Against people with a higher IQ

Ofcourse this are only a few suggestions, simple answer that says "1 to 5 are correct" then a lot of people can decide what they want to do the following months/years

I made my decision a year ago, but others still don't know

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:12 pm

You forgot a couple (or more).

6) Ownership Control
7) Evolution Control

Next,

When you say, "Hates it when people release fixes", I can only comment that if true, this would be the dumbest thing I ever heard from a developer. If he maintained a public CVS and actually worked to collect information about bugs and fixes, all of this would fall together quite quickly and nicely. But instead, we are all just hanging out here in the wind.

I wanted to mention that I have finally managed to get my base Nuke 7.6 Platinum code very close to totally compliant by making literally thousands of changes and editing almost every file inside Nuke. This has taken countless hours of my time, which sucks because I'm in this to provide content to my users, not to spend my life fixing FB's code (and again, every time a new release comes out).

I have rewritten (okay, I'm still rewriting) my bbtonuke forums port and am still working out a few problems that exist not only on my site, but in every version of Nuke from 6.5 and regular phpBB (regarding non-compliant coding methodologies).

I have also rewritten 3 different Nuke Themes (Platinum enabled) to be 100% HTML 4.01 Transitional and CSS Compliant after not being able to hire even ONE SINGLE PHP-NUKE THEME DEVELOPER that could produce a single compliant theme for Nuke in over a year of trying!(2-Mtechnik Themes and 1-TechGFX Theme). Despite begging and offering to pay theme "developers" (developers, that's a laugh) for help, I had to do it myself! I can't draw a straight line, but I can now make that pretty formatting done by others 100% HTML 4.01 Transitional and CSS compliant! Now I am teaching other theme "designers" how to do it.

I wrote the first 100% compliant content scroller for PHP-Nuke themes and blocks and it pisses me off that once again, I looked for existing fixes for the whole non-compliant "marquee" situation for a year, and came up with nothing. Everyone said it was too hard to do and EVERYONE was either using marquee or those different stupid non-"cross-browser" non-compliant scrollers from DynamicDrive.com. I even tried to hire them to fix thier non-compliant and problematic code to no avail. Once again, I ended up having to rewrite several versions of new code that do both of these functions myself.

But where do I go with all of this?
I have made thousands of code changes that fix too many problems to list, and yet there is nobody to give the information to. The fact remains that because of FB, there is no place for me to put this code (that fixes so many problems by being compliant) making the more serious problems really stand-out; and thus one would think, relatively more easy to fix.

Is there a justifyable reason why I and the thousands of others that use PHP-Nuke can't have a method to report bugs and to submit fixes to be incorporated into the solution? The long and short of it is no, there really isn't. I only use nuke now because of the committment in time I have made and the number of modules out there that allow me to do what I want, even if it means that I have to rewrite them.

I have recoded "Title" and "Alt" functions (just to name two) properly into 95% of my site's files allowing a much more robust experience in any browser. Sure, a really simple thing to do, but it prompts the question, why isn't this allowed to be in the base code where it would continue to evolve and improve EVERY site?

I've recoded about 30 different Nuke (and Platinum distributed) blocks and 20 different modules to make them 100% HTML and CSS compliant, I have a running list that I started yesterday over in the STAFF - Platinum 7.6.1 BETA forum at http://techgfx.com that includes all of the new block and theme code that I have repaired for Platinum 7.6.1. (If you are a Platinum BETA Tester, you have access to all of this new 100% Compliant Code in that forum); hopefully this will result in more compliant blocks and modules not only for Platinum, but throughout Nuke as time goes on and these repaired solutions get distributed around.

I myself am not the greatest programmer; but again my nack for fixing these compliance issues has made finding other, more serious coding bugs/problems much easier and has enabled me to "feed back" identified coding problems that I can't fix quickly myself, to the home of the solutions and elsewhere (like navigation inside the popup print-only version calendars if you are using the NUCalendar module, and the coding problems relative to using GT-NextGen with the survey block as it uses the sprintf function, as just two examples (See: http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/posts4447-highlight.html).

Evolution of most of my functions has come from me either rewriting code that's simply "out there" or getting involved with others that are committed to specific areas. NOTHING I HAVE HAS COME FROM PHPNUKE.ORG other than my very first copy of Nuke which was a badly damaged version of 7.0.

In fixing all of this, my own developments have suffered because I'm so busy trying to fix FB's base code and thus in my case, the forked Platinum code of that bad base code, I haven't had time to work on my own developments, nevermind content. On the upside, all of this work has meant that my site has gone from over 2500 errors per page to none and my performance has improved substantially.

For the problems, I blame FB... but in the same breath, I want thank the dozens of great people like Raven, Chatserv, MrFluffy and the many others that have made the process of running nuke and fixing much easier. I also must credit them for being at this for a lot longer. I would be lost without thier contributions to the community (as well as to me personally).

But FB can stick it.

I've got all of that out of my system, so I'm ready to be a moderator now.

lol

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:32 pm

Terrible good post.

Since you made a bunch of fixes in the platinum i have some thoughts.

If techgfx listens and uses your code then:

- i could provide a bug report system as used on dragonflycms.com so you people realy have something useable to work with
- make Platinum the main development system for PHP-Nuke since people are realy listening out there.
- implement each new FB version fixed and checked into platinum

Would that be something worth it, so that your valuable hours don't get lost ?

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:39 pm

I want to know if you're serious about being a moderator?!?

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:23 pm

As for the TechGFX stuff, it would be really great to have a CVS area.. In fact, when I joined the development team, this was the very first thing I asked about (not answered yet), but I think you'd need to talk to someone higher up on the food chain over at techgfx.com than me in addressing that issue. I for one would really welcome it, especially if it had a project for bug management like we do with Dragonfly.

In the meantime, I'm still submitting fixes that I assume nobody has ever seen or heard of before... Not many people really worry about compliance for some reason, regardless of how important it is. I think of how smooth my raw and error logs look now compared to before! My site runs like a well oiled machine thanks to compliance!

Things are pretty quiet over in the beta forum at techgfx right now (except for my list of fixes), so I don't know who's working on what... I'm simply plugging along and uploading fixed files as -code- screens as I address each module/block/file. Obviously a CVS would go a long way here.

If the team uses my new theme code that I published there today (I took the default techGFX T-Platinum theme and rewrote it to be 100% Compliant), all of the subsequent code that I have provided makes each section 100% Compliant (in terms of each module and block that I have fixed). At this point, the base index and admin screens are 100% compliant using my new code. (Another weekend that I could be doing something useful with my life, gone.)

You can see a very limited demo of how far I have gotten by checking out my test site at http://test76.64bit.us.

I haven't even gotten to the news module yet. I'm taking fixing things block by block, module by module, starting with all of the default stuff. I'll probably post a test article and start working on the news module next.

As for being a forum moderator... Let me know when you start your new RAVEN CMS, I'll be a moderator and coder when it goes into BETA. Other than that, I don't know where you'd want me to moderate here at raven's, do you?

Back to work I go....

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:23 pm

As of right now, TechGFX's server is going down to drain. It takes so long that sometimes I don't even wanna click more than 2 links. CVS idea is great, maybe he can sign something up at SourceForge.net or something.

Regular Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 95 Location: NY

Mesum wrote:

As of right now, TechGFX's server is going down to drain. It takes so long that sometimes I don't even wanna click more than 2 links. CVS idea is great, maybe he can sign something up at SourceForge.net or something.

I honestly don't think its the server; its Tech's PNP installation that is actually slowing things down. All the other nukes running on the server don't have speed issues.

As for CVS, I'm not quite sure if most of the staff there would want to learn how to utilize / work with CVS.

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:51 am

I have to agree with the thinking that the problems at http://techgfx.com are relative to the configuration of Platinum and not the server. I also think that having everything in Platinum is great, but that doesn't mean that everything should be turned on, especially on the site designed to support the solution. Sometimes it's okay to turn things off, and in this case I think it would be much better to start disabling some things to improve performance.

There are also quite a few users and admins that have animated Avatars and huge signature files (One admin I noticed has an animated 260K signature graphic and an animated 45K avatar... Both remote loaded of course....) I mean is that really necessary?

I have written a couple of times offering help to optimize the performance and have made suggestions regarding configuration changes, but those posts and PM's have gone unanswered.

Again, I'm not really high on the totum pole at techgfx.com so I have no control and little (if any) influence regarding affecting change there.

As mentioned above, I also do not participate much in forums there anymore due to the extremely poor performance. I simply don't have the patience or desire to wait 60-90 seconds between page loads which is what things have been like there for a few months now.

At this point, I have stopped participating in regular forums because of that problem and am only providing my file changes for the new BETA 7.6.1.1 version which keeps me in one staff forum. I would be more involved if not for the performance problems which IMHO should be the highest priority there, yet continuously go unaddressed. (At least to me or publically... I can't say what's going on internally with staff/management of the site).

If there were a CVS solution, I personally would rather see that running on another site not affected by these performance problems. I have even offered to host a dedicated site/forums/CVS for this new solution where optimization would be substantially better.

The real upside to DJ's offer to host CVS and Project Management is that DJ already has great CVS and Project Management "Modules" (that's what I'm going to call them at this point) setup under Dragonfly which makes file and project management a really easy task. I just love the CVS solution at http://dragonflycms.com

In fact, I would really like to see DJ's solution released/sold to others that are interested in CVS/Project Management. I would love to have something like that running on my site for my various projects.

388 posts makes me "Involved". Is that what you call this? How many posts does it take to develop a psychosis? Smile