So themes are now for sale?

Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

Ok let me first point out that i do not wish to start anything but just a minor discussion .
Is it a change of tactics towards people,members or just a way of doing business?

A few times we saw some articles about a site (all-themes.com) that started the largest database of themes?

Now when you visit the site you will see that rules are changed.
I quote from the main index :

Due to the lack of Donations our Theme System will be going on a subscription system.
This is something we did not want to get forced to do, but in all reality we have put alot of hard work into getting everyone all these great themes and not much in return.
Where else can you go and find 500+ themes in a nice organized fashion.
We have hundreds more themes to add and not to mention a HUGE downloads section consisting of 1000-2000 downloads all coming in the near future.

We hate that it had to come to this, but with all the hard work we put in we are just not getting the thanks we deserve.
This system will now be in place and will not be removed.
By signing up to our subscription you will have premium access to 500+ Themes with more added every day and our soon to be massive downloads section containing around 1000 PHP-Nuke Downloads.
We have made the subscriptions affordable and all subscriptions can be purchased through paypal.

And you think this is all?

With our silver plan grants access to our 500+ themes for a time period of 3 months. $5.00 3 month(s)

With our Gold plan you will have 1year access to all of our 500+ themes. $20.00 1 year(s)

With our Platinum Plan you will enjoy all 500+ themes.
This subscription is a lifetime subscription and will never expire. $50.00 30 year(s)

So personaly i think this was planned,free attention on this site with articles,and how long are they online with this before they changed?

Copy of Ravens news :

Posted on Thursday, March 16 @ 16:02:03 EST
We are proud to announce the launch of All-Themes.com

Exactly 3 weeks later.

Now tell me......whitch author is gonna mail them now ...?

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:07 am

The only thing that bothers me is

Quote:

We have hundreds more themes to add and not to mention a HUGE downloads section consisting of 1000-2000 downloads all coming in the near future.

. The last time I subscribed to a site with such a claim, they managed to get about 30 downloads available before they decided it was all too much effort and closed up shop, keeping all their subscribers money.
Unfortunately for them, everytime they open a new site, I'm only a few steps behind them, reminding them of this fact Wink

registered · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6437

As Raven has repeatedly said, these forums are no place for personal attacks. Take this stuff offline or to your own sites.

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:38 am

Enough is enough. Grow up, kids.

Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:44 am

Please stay on topic if you wish to continue posting here.
Attacking individuals is not permitted in these forums.

The original post of this thread posed the hypothesis that a site had posted news etc on this and other sites offering themes for free, then changed its mind and is now charging for themes and it *might* appear this was the intention all along and thus they decieved their users.

The question was not about whether it is right or wrong to sell themes, even themes that others have created but whether it was the intention out the outset to move from free themes to 'subscription access to themes'.

Hitwalker, please correct me if I have misinterpreted your post.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

I have removed all the crap from this thread and unlocked it. I will only say this once [again]. Anyone, at all, who goes off topic and/or starts trash talking will be banned in every way possible from this site. If you want to do that crap, do it to each other some place else, but not here.

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:47 am

Thanks for that Raven, I wasn't going to post my two pence worth until all the bickering had stopped.

Anyway I think Hitwalker has got a point. Most of these themes can be downloaded from other sites free, all they are doing it is putting them in one easy to reach place. I would rather make a donation to the original creater if I decide to use the theme!

Also I'm not personally sure using a subscription for a PHP Nuke site is in the spirit of the the PHP Nuke community, well for things which free elsewhere anyway. A lot of people spend a lot of time offering free advice, developing new modules & blocks and all for free!

OK they put a lot of work in to compile the themes, but I don't think it's right charging to download someone elses themes. Perhaps they should considering donating some money to the original creator.

They should have realised that they would never make a lot of money purely from donations, especially when they only have about 1200 members. The service they are offering is different to this site and people are only going to pay/donate if they use the product.

If I saw one I liked then I would maybe consider paying the $5, but I wouldn't pay anymore as I don't generally need to download themes everyday. If in the future I wanted to download another theme I would pay just the $5 again.

They've still got the donations block up as well, are they hoping people will subscribe and also donate?!? I wonder of all the members who donated previously will be given a subscription?

That's the end of my rant, it would be interesting to here from the owners of the site and get their side of the story.

Jakec Smile

Regular Joined: Jan 24, 2004 Posts: 81 Location: Sweden

Quote:

it would be interesting to here from the owners of the site and get their side of the story.

I know they got a notice of this topic, it's up to them now if they show up in "court" ?

Quote:

Also I'm not personally sure using a subscription for a PHP Nuke site is in the spirit of the the PHP Nuke community, well for things which free elsewhere anyway. A lot of people spend a lot of time offering free advice, developing new modules & blocks and all for free!

I think you are right about that, but if the developer/creator of the scripts, themes etc.. use a subscription that would be more ok than people starting sites and collekts others hard work and charge people to be able to download them, it would be better if they had a donation thing.

Personally i would never charge for anything and if i can't afford to run my site then it will go down, maybe that is why i can't understand all those people starting these sites charging for something that is free and should be so too, no respect for the developers/creators or the php nuke community, it is very sad.

registered · Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:48 am

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree (if it is done "right"). While I only have donations on my site, I can also respect the hard work some people go through to collect all these downloads and maintain them over time. I personally have no issues with them charging a subscription fee... even if my modules/blocks, etc., are in that database. Would I rather them send folks to MY site to get the downloads? Yes. But, that is a lot of work to collect all those downloads and set them up in Nuke and it stills gets my work in the hands of people who can benefit from them. I see nothing wrong with "charging a reasonable fee" for something like that, but, again, if its done right. If someone were to "milk" money from people and then abandon them, then that would definitely NOT be "right". Also, if they were to modify the downloads / copyrights / etc. in any way (i.e., violating the GPL), that would also NOT be "right".

JMHO

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:01 am

I respect you opinion montego, we all have our way to look at things.

montego wrote:

If someone were to "milk" money from people and then abandon them, then that would definitely NOT be "right". Also, if they were to modify the downloads / copyrights / etc. in any way (i.e., violating the GPL), that would also NOT be "right".

Most of us know who/which have done/doing that....

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:28 am

hitwalker wrote:

Copy of Ravens news :

Posted on Thursday, March 16 @ 16:02:03 EST
We are proud to announce the launch of All-Themes.com

Exactly 3 weeks later.

Does it matter if it's 3 weeks, 1 day or 20 years later? correct me if i'm wrong but i think you or someone else said in another topic (that is removed i think..) that it's up to the visitor to decide if it's ok or not to pay for the service?

I think that it's wrong to even think of starting a service like that, it can't be done in a good way what so ever, and if this "theme" site choose to do it like they did and dig their own grave i think it's up to them.
but this is just what i think...

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:37 pm

I have to agree with Montego.
If it is done right, I see nothing wrong in offering a subscription based access service to lots of downloads - provided also that they are not simply linking directly to the file on the original authors site.

If people want something specific, they usually use a search engine and they are presented with a lot of sites they can visit.

It is all about supply and demand - if there was no demand for these types of sites.....

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:29 pm

Guardian2003 wrote:

I have to agree with Montego.
If it is done right, I see nothing wrong in offering a subscription based access service to lots of downloads

Do you think it's "done right" to compete with the owner/creator of the scripts, themes etc. if they now try to get some bucks for their hard work on their sites and also is giving support for their scripts?

is it "done right" to not ask the owner/creator of these files first, if it's ok or maybe make some kind of deal

does the expression "fair play" exist at all when it comes to this?

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:14 pm

I'm all for free (I prefer donations to subscriptions), but those who provide download sites do provide a service. If someone wants the convenience of finding multiple downloads at one site, that could save time versus finding the downloads at the authors' sites.

I can appreciate respecting the author's work, but the choice of using the GPL or similar license wasn't forced on them.

Finally, my experience has been that people who use free software are willing to find it for free at the source. I think the subscription model will fail and suggest the site owner consider alternate revenue models.

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:59 pm

I agree with you kguske on almost everything... but i don't think there is a meaning to have these discussions because it wont help that much.

most people (i don't say all) that runs/start these kind of sites don't have any "common sense" and definitly don't care about the creators of the scripts or their customers.
at the end it's just all about making money and the sad thing is that we will see more and more of these "service" sites popping up... and with that also see more and more of the "script creators/developers" disappear...because they don't think it's fun any more.

There might be a way to make it hard for those sites... and that is to start a totaly free download site no donations, no subscriptions, no banners and no force to register and where the creator/owners of the scripts can choose how they want it to be... (who knows it might be one coming soon) Wink

Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:28 pm

Please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks.

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:45 am

mmm,wasnt sure to reply again or not but since it got locked and un-locked again and got replies in private as well i thought i just point out to the basics of this topic and nothing more.
My topic shows how easely news can be abused.
Ive had several discussions about this and it all comes to one thing, the acceptance of blindly posted news,the trust that goes with it and the accuracy of information.

I will take the time to explain a few things on some replies here.
First...posting on ravenphpscripts.com,phpnuke.org,nukescript.net etc..is very lucrative cause of its traffic,ranks .....need to say more?

But its also an easy place to abuse its service.
Not every posting is accurate.

But the website in question doesnt decide after 3 weeks to go by a subscribed system,nobody will believe that and never did,this was simply planned.
They weren't even finshed yet putting all promised themes up..

Does money has anything to do with this?
I dont know.
But as the story implies "Due to the lack of Donations"..
And a reply on that..: "Does it matter if it's 3 weeks, 1 day or 20 years later"?....
Yes it does matter ,simple said....you start an themes database (thats wasnt finished yet) ....there are topics posted everywhere and without waiting to grow or get response it goes subscribed in 3 weeks.
I maybe just a carpenter but even i dont buy this.

And thats the main thing of the topic...
I realy dont give a .... or a .......if money is involved in these tactics.
Everybody can always go to any authors website ,download whatever and support there any development that is going on.
But we know that it isnt always the case is it...?

Lets take for example Kguske's nukeseo or monty's html newsletter.
Both offer a donations block but how many of you actualy donated something atleast once?
I know i did...how about you?

So you see...the story on money,or supporting authors isnt that easy huh...

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:03 am

Quote:

Lets take for example Kguske's nukeseo or monty's html newsletter.
Both offer a donations block but how many of you actualy donated something atleast once?
I know i did...how about you?

hitwalker has a point here! ROTFL

Just had to add a little levity here. Wink

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:57 am

montego wrote:

hitwalker has a point here! ROTFL

Just had to add a little levity here. Wink

Yes he rally got a point there....(i think...)

Because you have a donation block on your site does not mean people actually have to donate after all you all know you work with free stuff GPL etc...
and because no one donates does not mean that they don't appreciate your hard work.

maybe i'm not like others but people have asked me where they can donate money and that they have been looking for some kind of donation block or similar but they can't find any, i just told them that it's because there is't any and that i don't do this for money and that my reward is if you are happy then i'm happy but that's me...

And to all that have those kind of donation blocks etc. here is a little example:
if someone goes to a site that have collected all themes or scripts in the world and pay for getting access to these files....later they need support and goes to the owner/creators site and ask for help do you really think they will pay once more...? same goes for script updates...

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:03 am

Ok i thought the reply explained enough.
And no donations block to find?
killing me

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:11 am

Quote:

maybe i'm not like others but people have asked me where they can donate money and that they have been looking for some kind of donation block or similar but they can't find any, i just told them that it's because there is't any and that i don't do this for money and that my reward is if you are happy then i'm happy but that's me...

I agree. It is a personal decision as you the author of the code / site.

Quote:

if someone goes to a site that have collected all themes or scripts in the world and pay for getting access to these files....later they need support and goes to the owner/creators site and ask for help do you really think they will pay once more...? same goes for script updates...

Yep. That's the breaks. It is GPL...

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:30 am

hitwalker wrote:

Ok i thought the reply explained enough.
And no donations block to find?
killing me

I don't expect all to understand what i'm talking about, we all have diffrent ways to look at things Wink

registered · Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:59 am

As this has been discussed before I am not going to go over everything again, but GPL seems pretty straitforward on this matter. You can charge for the ability to download, or for support of an addon (module, block, mod, theme, etc). You cannot how ever charge directly for an addon. You can also not stop someone from allowing others from distributing an addon, as long as they have not violated the GPL license (removing the license, changing the license, removing copyrights, etc).

I do not remember if themes were covered completely in the last topic or not. But they are under the same issue as a module or mod. If they call functions in the core (which all of them do that I know of) GPL swallows them up completely. Which means you have no right to attack someone that has a "pay for" theme on their site for download as long as they have not violated the license.

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:59 pm

I'm not sure people are attacking anybody, just voicing their opinions.

I personally have a similar way of thinking as spc and it is probably the reason I got involved with PHP Nuke. The sites I am working on at the moment, aren't for me to make a quick buck, but because I enjoy doing it. If I can make some money on the side by advertising, or donations then great, but if not what the hell.

I've only been involved with Nuke for about six months, but when I first started out I used to frequent PHP Nuke UK, unfortunately it's seems to have dropped off the face of the earth, but there was one guy there (Griffinsbridge) who went out of his way to help me and still is! The point I'm trying to make is that he has never asked for a dime and I think this is what typifies the Nuke community in general.

Sorry I think I went off topic for a second there.

One last thing I'm not attacking anybody and I think one of the points Hitwalker is trying to make is that perhaps they should have given it a bit longer, maybe 6 months, a year. The donations would have probably picked up and there would have been more members and they could say they had given it a go if they then decided to switch to a subs system.

The idea behind the project is good, they are providing a service and if I'm looking for a theme I may use them, I just hope they don't drop off the earth if it's not profitable enough.

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:14 am

It would appear that they have now removed their subscription system and introduced advertising instead! Very Happy