To fork or not to fork - that is the question

New Member Joined: Sep 15, 2004 Posts: 13

Raven wrote:

With this latest announcement from phpnuke http://phpnuke.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6577 , I would really like to have some very open discussion and hear from EVERYONE who visits this site. What do you think about this? I have been thinking for some time about taking phpnuke v6.9 and forking it. Then, redesigning it from the ground up with security as the main focus. I have many more thoughts on this, but I'd like honest, passionate, non-argumentative opinions on this, simply meaning everyone's opinion is to be left alone, not argued. This is not meant to be an attack on FB or anyone else out there. Is it needed? Is it wanted? Are there too many already? Is it worth it? Would you be interested in working with me on it?

Here's my take, as a total n00b:

I like it non-forked, and that is one of the main reasons I am here. I think it is great that you are making a lot of effort to leave the DB intact and making packaged upgrades that do not limit what people can do. There are forked nukes that I like, but I left them for your non-forked version. Just my 2c!

Thanks Raven.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

Next step!

http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/postp22857.html#22857

Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:25 pm

Okay, I'm confused. Many of you have been recently posting to this thread wanting to move on, see next steps, etc. So, I get it started and only one person has responded

In that link above I am soliciting feedback from many/any who have been wanting to move on. Have I misinterpreted what you want[ed]?

Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:06 pm

OOps, sorry Raven, I missed the thread completely.

Insane Joined: Jul 30, 2004 Posts: 85

I think to be honest, alot more people are seeing CPG-Nuke as the definitive fork. For security, coppermine, complete forum intergration, etc etc. It has alot more resources. (such as devs who can actually mod core code without creating huge bugs/exploits, unlike fb)

I do have faith in you Raven however, and I'd help you if you need anything. RavensScripts

Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:48 am

Mine will not be a fork. It will be my/our design. And we won't have any licensing issues either Wink

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:15 am

Then fantabulous! Surprised

Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:16 pm

In moving on, all I can say is PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let it be UTF-8 and not ISO-8859-1 based.

The rest of my two cents are already scattered throughout this and other threads.

I used to be a "fork" guy, but given the many (okay.. MANY) problems that are inherent to PHP-Nuke in terms of structure and security (not even to talk about the license situation) I say "fork'et it" and start with a new solution.

Either that or get everyone together to work on CPG which seems to be making leaps and bounds advancements. In that regard, I must comment my opinion that if the pro's I know from here and elsewhere (and okay, I'll just drop just a few names, Raven, Bob, Chatserv, Bill, Fluffy and the many others out there) put all of their efforts into simply converting their own code for CPG, you'd see the end of PHP-Nuke in a couple of months... And I really don't think that this is an exaggeration.

Anyway, I'd say more, but I've been re-writing code all night and am all-in.

Thanks

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:29 am

CPG has to use the same license.

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:22 am

They are opensource at the moment aren't they?

And I agree with 64, if Raven and the others sites were to make their code CPG, PHP-Nuke would see more than half of it's traffic dead.

Sorry I haven't posted in a while guys... Sad

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:57 am

CPG nuke has been forced to operate under the same license (GNU/GPL) because phpNuke is still at the root of their system.

Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:07 pm

Still looking for php coders?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:44 am

Raven wrote:

CPG nuke has been forced to operate under the same license (GNU/GPL) because phpNuke is still at the root of their system.

Raven, so what does that mean regarding your thoughts to possibly fork, anything? If you do fork, I'm not positive what that means ... will you still make efforts to keep the DB the same, or it that essentially what forking means - to alter the DB and go into your own direction?

Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:20 am

Once I have the resources (and time) I will build my own. Nothing will be phpnuke. That doesn't mean some compatability will not remain. It just means that there will be no code that could be counted as derivative work.

Client Joined: Jul 18, 2003 Posts: 977

Raven wrote:

Once I have the resources (and time) I will build my own. Nothing will be phpnuke. That doesn't mean some compatability will not remain. It just means that there will be no code that could be counted as derivative work.

I am so looking forward to this!

Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:58 pm

ecvej wrote:

Still looking for php coders?

Yes, but I have to have the time in my schedule too. I have been off work the past 3 months with some health issues but I am on the mend. I will be returning to work in a couple of weeks and after that I will know more concerning my schedule. Please PM me your experience with PHP and MySQL. Thanks!

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:57 am

If you're still busy I don't mind getting a few things started myself? If it's truly going to be a long time before you can get things started I might look into developing a CMS-lite for my own needs

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:29 pm

The master plan calls for a single point of entry that includes all code that is needed as opposed to files all over the place. But we can deal with that later. Look at this flowchart of how I want the login module http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/Portal_files/Basic_Login.jpg . Do you want to take a stab at that?

Reference this post http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/postt3188.html and focus in on this post http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/postp23105.html#23105 .

and http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/content-cat-2.html

Subject Matter Expert Joined: Feb 23, 2004 Posts: 358

The question I will submit to this discussion is: what BB will be used, or will a BB also be built from scratch? Since the Forum is the central focus point to any website that is an actual community (as opposed to a commerce site), this question must be answered so that the design will flow and integrate neatly up front, and less 'hacks' will be needed for cooperation (assuming a 3rd party BB).

PHrEEk

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:48 pm

Great question. My pie-in-the-sky response will be it shouldn't matter. The Forum, in my design, should be nothing more than a plugin with a layer that converts it to interface with the MCP.

Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:03 pm

Forums require sessions, cookies and permissions. I cannot possibly understand how one could separate the website users from the Forum users and thus revert the Forum to a lowly 'plugin'? If this plugin concept was to include one of the more popular BBs like phpBB or VBulletin for example, we would then be re-inventing the wheel that has already caused so many problems; a port; a way to pass user information and data between the two different engines. This requires alteration of the 3rd party BB scripts, which then turns into the same PITA we currently go through to upgrade the BB software outside of the web engine. I do not wish to be banned from this site over an opinion, and I also would very much like to contribute to the freedom of release from FB's idiocy. Therefore I have to say that I think it foolhardy to design a CMS and 'worry about the BB later'. I believe the CMS should be designed to fully function and cooperate with the BB from the word 'go'. :: shrug ::

PHrEEk

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:04 am

I agree and I don't think I explained it well enough. Conceptually, there will be core functionality and everything else 'plugs' in to the core. I said in my previous post that there would be a translation layer, if you will. The translation layer for PHPBB, as an example, should allow you to run the stand alone code with only a link to the user's table. The same for VB and Phorum, etc. Very litle code will need to be changed. Now remember, this is a design desire. I really believe in it and believe it is possible.

And, I certainly wouldn't ban anyone over an opinion.

Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:07 am

I'm staying at a hotel (away from a computer) until late friday but I'll make some notes on paper whilst I'm travelling etc

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:21 am

And away we go!

http://www.ravenphpscripts.com/article-708--0-0.html

Hangin' Around Joined: May 12, 2005 Posts: 37

I've read the thread and tho I'm not too good with phpnuke nor php yet, I have some comments about the entire idea...

To be sure that I'm understanding the situation and potiential plans correctly I will post my assumption on the basics...

This system is to be a content management system with the forums running secondary to the main site...there will be no joining of forces in such a way that eliminates the individual functioning and support of already established nuke resource sites like NukeScripts and Chatserves and Chris's sites....Yet you will all come together in the area that each specialize in to work individually yet together on each part of the portal to keeping in mind the central vision of what the final design, structure and so on will be...the goal is to eliminate the greed, and ego that currently plauges the phpnuke community to not only create an efficient, useful, secure, functional , versitile and clean system....everyone has plans and ideas, yet all agree on the basic plan...in their own way.

Support is available, the community is weary of all the crap going on a different sites (some fail to even ensure that the stuff available even is complete....I tell you from experience missing files are common).

Now, IF the aforementioned assumption is correct, here is my opinions on this:

1. You can't furthur divide the community. Unless you all just quit doing what you do, this isn't possible because there is a constant threat (as ridiculous as it may seem in reality to you pros we noobs haveno clue about the facts and legalities) that nuke is going to be ripped out from under us should someone actually take FB up on his sales offer... Noobs are coming into the community eager to break away from Bill Gates and is Micro- crap. But the confusion quickly crushes those spirits. It's hard to get a site BUILT because of all the changes and the fear that just maybe you're not secure enough...One resource says one thing another agrees wholeheartedly, but then you find that 10 more adamantly disagree and can prove the folly of the others...it's confusing and disheartening. especially when all you want to do is make a site that other people can enjoy.
This was me for 2 years. The only group I trusted on here was codezwiz. I left nuke for a year to fiddle with the phpbb, came back and it had gone from 6.5 to 7.6 - the following day 7.7 was the newest....I was about to leave again when I found Nukescripts. I loved their scripts and had seen Bob mentioned often before...I saw that he seriously gave a hoot about the community and the project...I began my nuke again, seeing Raven's banner over there I said, well this has got to be a good place because it's adverted here...I'm SO glad I came here because I've found my nuke circle so to speak.
Now, please listen carefully guys...cause this may surprise you...i had NEVER looked at this thread before...and was shocked to realize that EVERY one of you guys own the sites that I actually have grown to believe in. There is a HUGE difference between the communities that have divided...you already know that I'm just telling you that even a noob who knows nothing of your pasts can SEE and FEEL this.
There would be no disputing the fact that if you could all work in the area that you specialize in, this could be THE nuke of the future...the one that is user friendly, and allows a noob to actually HAVE a site (as opposed to spending months on one then messing it up completely or simply giving up from frustration) Most importantly, you all have the same goals...I've heard it from most of you else where 2 years ago...I (am many others I think) would love to see this project go.
*ok, here I'm having a dramatic vision of you all in an oceans 11 type scene prepariing to conqure the forces of all that is evil in phpnuke*

2. Forums Integration Issue. I cannot stress enough how important the forums are to some people...and many will NOT subscribe to both the forums and the nuke without difficulty. My primary site is for those who are suffering from stress and trauma related disorders...their tolerance and trust is very low and so I must have a site that is managable for them... currently they get severely confused and discouraged when there is a complication due to the profiles issue. this was a primary factor in my giving up on phpnuke last year... I think that we definately need to keep the forums up and integrate the registration process (which I believe should enclude some of the nsn add-on's as part of the system...especially user management!) Maybe 3 divisions in management would work here? Base nuke team, profiles and integration team, and a forums team? This would provide that the best of the best feature were securely integrated into each part of the php portal.

3. Content Systems...I know that Peter from static nuke has developed that project to the point that it can create modules on demand. No one has worked with the content system...Why? A system like his would be perfect for those of us who are looking for a way to add manuals and such things to our site, but are unable to understand HOW to make a module...I've always used the content system for things like helpfiles and copyright materials...stuff that isn't the main content but is important...
Topics...nsn has seen the flaws in this system...i need not comment on the needs there as surely these will be addressed...however...i would like to see more cross referencing between the content, sections, topics, and weblinks...I think this could all be done simply by integrating the content and sections so they can lead to the topics...
I personally use the sections for stuff like endangered species, or featured writers...stuff that really doesn't fit much into the site, but may have some connection to certain materials listed elsewhere... None of these sections should be eliminated because they do serve distinct purposes in any content driven site.

Well I've been typing too long and I'll wait to see how you feel about this before continuing...i hope this isn't offensive...i just think you are all great and would love to see you all thwart Fb and Gates....

One last note...why not create a forum here full of surveys...find out first what people want and why...what do they use each feature for? what problems do they have with it? what would they like to see happen with that feature....it's dooable...

Respectful Regards to all my Gurus,

Sabastina